Making it Grow is brought to you in part by the South Carolina Department of Agriculture Certified South Carolina Grown helps consumers identify, find, and buy South Carolina products.

McLeod Farms in Mcbee, South Carolina.

This family farm offers seasonal produce including over 22 varieties of peaches, additional funding provided by International Paper and the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance.

♪ opening music ♪ ♪ <Amanda> Well, good evening, and welcome to Making It Grow.

We're so glad that you can join us tonight.

We're coming to you from historic downtown Sumter, South Carolina.

And I'm Amanda McNulty.

I'm a Clemson Extension Agent.

And it's a wonderful thing to be the host because I get to come here with really smart people and learn things from them.

It's like being a perpetual student, but they never give, never make me take a test which is, which is better than being a student, actually in a classroom.

Terasa Lott, we're so glad you can be with us.

And Terasa, you're the Master Gardener Coordinator, and you've had a lot of juggling to do in the last, couple of, last year or so but I think that the program has tried to keep going and you've been offering classes and everybody's just looking for the day when we can go out and do things and rejoin the community.

<Terasa> That's right.

It's been a challenging year for everyone.

It's touch all facets of life.

But our volunteers managed to give almost 29,000 hours of service in our July one to June 30th year despite having to keep physically distance.

So I think that's pretty incredible.

<Amanda> Yeah, answering questions and doing things.

I mean, because so much could be done by the telephone and helping people.

<That's right.> That's wonderful.

Well, I think that you inspire 'em to do their best.

And then we're so happy to have Keith Mearns here.

Keith is the Director of Horticulture of Grounds I think, at Historic Columbia, which is a lot of properties to keep up with.

And I think you've got one or two full time people.

But at times, you're able to take advantage of volunteers who I think enjoy working with you.

<Keith> Oh Yeah, twice a week, we have opportunities for volunteers.

<Amanda> And it's a good way, do they learn?

<Keith> Of course.

And a lot of times they get presents.

<Amanda> Oh of course.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

That is one of the nice things.

Yeah.

And it's a beautiful property.

And I remember when I was a little girl, all that property was endangered.

And it was thanks to Jenny Dreyer.

And some people like that, then we have those beautiful grounds today.

And one thing is, even though the houses have had or not, people have been able to enjoy the houses.

I think the grounds are open almost all the time.

<Keith> Yes, there's only one day a week where the grounds aren't open.

And they're always free when we are open.

<Amanda> And, and they are very, very beautiful.

Thank you for the wonderful work that you do there.

Paul Thompson has been the extension agent starting down towards the coast.

And I remember you used to, there was another, somebody down there.

Y'all used to write books and all kinds of things about hot weather gardening.

<Paul> Oh, you're talking about Brian?

<Amanda> Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But then you've ended up moving to York County, and is it a lot cooler up there?

Well, not lately.

[ laughs ] You know, we do at least have a little bit more extended spring and fall than when we were down living in Mount Pleasant.

<Amanda> Wow.

Yeah.

Anyway, but um, one thing that you do enjoy doing is I think you like to go out in the woods and look at wild flowers and things.

And I imagine that being closer to the Upstate, in that area has probably been a pleasure for you.

<Paul> Yeah.

I've always liked you know, hardwood forests.

Love the mountains.

So being closer to the mountains is really good.

<Amanda> Well, we're so glad that you were willing to make the trip down here.

We've missed having you here in person.

Thank you so much for coming.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, you know, we've you've, been on the show, but I think you were wearing your pajama pants at the time.

[ laughs ]But anyway, it's so nice to have you here today.

Well Terasa you have people who have been going out in this heat and rain and mosquitoes and managing to keep their gardens beautiful or having some whimsy on them.

And so you've got some gardens of the week pictures for us.

I sure do.

Such a fun time to travel around the state and see what you're doing in your yards and gardens.

So let's take a look.

First we have Kathy Campbell who sent us her perennial hibiscus.

She was so pleased to report that some are 11 inches in diameter.

>> Floyd and Annie Mae Turner sent us a white flower Doctura.

This is the only one left after a tornado came through in April of 2020.

Kathy Morgan featured a green Lynx spider with its prey.

Diane Jeter and Joy Lambert sent us Sam the dog who here in the photo is stuck between some potted plants.

She said the key is a little attention and a lot of water.

[ laughs ] And finally from Richard Hillary, also some potted plants, Richard sent us this photo with a note saying Making It Grow is his fiance Fay's, favorite show and the two of them are getting married after knowing each other for 37 years.

Richard and Fay happy wedding day from all of us at Making It Grow.

[ laughs ] Wasn't that fun?

<Amanda> That is a lot of fun.

Goodness gracious.

Well, I hope that he's learned that you don't put rocks in the bottoms of the pots for foliage anymore.

Instead, you buy your fiance a great big rock to put on her finger.

[ laughs ] For an engagement ring.

How about that?

[ laughs ] Well Terasa, you always compile some questions for us.

And I bet we've got one that we can start off with.

<Terasa> We do.

Our first question comes in from Lizzie in York.

Lizzie writes, I've got raised beds but don't seem to have enough room to grow as much as I would like to.

Should I look at square foot gardening?

<Amanda> Well Paul ,York is certainly an area you know, but I imagine that the same advice could go to lots of places.

What do you think she should do to try to get more yield or more room and for plants in these raised beds that are already a set size?

<Paul> Well might I suggest something that I started doing, several years back when I really upon moving up here I converted everything from used to be growing gardens in the ground growing in raised beds because of the you know the clay soils and that kind of thing.

And I started using livestock panels.

You can get these at farm supply stores and some of the home improvement stores have them.

But they're heavy gauge galvanized wire panels.

<Amanda> Is it called hog wire?

<Paul> It's not.

It come in a roll.

It comes in a rigid panel.

Sixteen feet long and slightly over four feet wide.

And if you cut them in half, then you have two eight foot panels with the ends of the wires leftover that you can stick in the ground.

And then you bring them together and we have our bed space at some of the gardens I work in far enough apart so these things don't feel closed in.

So basically, you close it out over top of the alley between the two beds and grow things vertically, instead of trying to grow things... <Amanda> So you're not shading the bed at all.

<Paul> You're not shading the bed, you're actually growing the plant mostly outside of the bed.

<Amanda> So like, here's a raised bed, and here's one and if you put your, this is how we doing it.

<Paul> Right <okay>, And just zip tie it together.

And then I usually make a spacer.

Just a scrap piece of lumber that I can cut notches in and kind of push the wire apart and slide these notches down over it To keep it shaped like this instead of wanting to collapse it, so it makes it more like an OG shape kind of a rounded arch.

<Amanda> How do you, how hard is it to cut it?

Do you get bolt cutters?

<Paul> You have to use bolt cutters.

<Amanda> Is it something that probably I could do with my hands?

<Paul> If you have the biggest enough pair of bolt cutters.

It's the size of the bolt cutters which makes the job easy.

But, you know, I purchased a small pair about that long when I first bought the first panel because I had to cut it in half to get it on the truck.

You can't haul a 16 foot long panel.

[ laughs ] <Amanda> And the piece, the part that's left over has been long enough to hold it.

By the time you get it held together at the top.

<Right> It stayed in place in the soil.

<Paul> The wire grid is about like a six by eight.

And so you've practically got eight inches of wire, you know and about 10 of those wires stuck down into the ground.

And anyway, there are certain tomatoes that are real vigorous.

What I really like is called Juliet.

It's a plum type cherry.

It's actually a Roma type a small Roma type tomato, that grows in clusters.

And so the fruit you know, get two inches long, very meaty not like a typical cherry tomato that seems to be so you know, mostly seeds and goop.

[ laughs ] <Amanda> And the Roma is often easier than some of the other, <Paul> And it'll, it'll grow, one plant will cover a four foot by eight foot panel.

And the nice thing about it is, you can actually allow a lot of the suckers to develop, because you're trying to cover up that panel.

And you just start those lower suckers, you started them horizontal.

<I see> And all you have to do is just feed the,feed them through the wire.

They get past the next horizontal wire.

You feed them through the hole.

And you don't have to tie anything.

And that just makes it a lot easier.

And growing, you know, cucumbers on a trellis versus having them sprawling across the bed.

Grow pole beans instead of bush beans.

And the other nice thing is if you got you know, this over an alleyway, hot day like today, and you're out there and want to pick tomatoes, you actually are standing in the shade.

You know, picking the tomatoes or the beans or whatever it might be.

<Amanda> Now your beds are high, how high off the ground?

<Paul> None of our beds are any higher than about 16 inches.

<Amanda> Oh, so even somebody short like me would be able to work under there?

<Paul> That could be an issue, you can always make the trellises shorter.

<Yeah> But this year, I tried something different because, I don't want to waste the trellis on a tomato plant that's only gonna get five feet tall.

So I put a panel over a four foot wide bed and took up a whole bed for tomatoes.

And I mounted it horizontal about three feet over top of the bed.

Used flagging tape, I would tie it to the wire above and then tie it to the base of the tomato plant.

And then that flagging tape, you tie it tight, but it's got enough stretch and give to it that as the tomato grows, all you have to do is just kind of push the stem around one revolution of that tape to hold it so there's no tying.

And then once it get, gets to the wire, you can just let it grow through the wire.

And if it flops, the wire grid is supporting all the branches.

So nothing's flopping and laying on the ground.

<Amanda> And you're able to reach through?

<Paul> You're able to reach underneath.

<Amanda> Yeah, or even through because the poles, you can reach through or underneath.

<Yes> And then I mean, they can last forever.

You probably don't even have to put them in the garage.

<Paul> And some people will use those and go ahead and bend them into a round shape.

But I like making them flat, they're more versatile.

You can take them down and store <Easier to store> And all it takes is about three, you know, zip ties to put them together when you use them.

<Amanda> So with the flagging tape, you're just using, you're not tying it around.

You're just making a place from the top to the bottom, and then just running the stem through it.

<Paul> Now, you know, we don't we don't start that right away with small.

So, you know, it could be you know, it's kind of a Long Branch, you know that you need to get up, right.

And so you might go ahead and wrap it a couple of times as you're originally tying it up.

It really does make it simple.

<Amanda> Well, it just sounds like a tremendous way you've if you've got limited space to dramatically increase the amount of space and so many people have small yards.

Yeah, that's really a pretty cool idea.

Thank you.

Okay, let me see what's left on my next on things to do.

Oh, we had a very exciting thing happen.

Tony Melton came to see us the other day.

As y'all know, Tony has had some health issues and has retired as an extension agent.

But his desire to share advice and his wonderful personality continues.

And we'd like to share a few minutes when he came over to visit us here at Sumter.

I'm here today with my wonderful friend of, Gosh, I guess over 25 years now Tony Melton, Extension Agent extraordinaire and Tony sadly You've had to stop helping the farmers and doing your lifelong work which do you want and work it was a joy for you.

<Tony> It was wonderful Amanda.

But I still get to keep coming over here Seeing y'all.

<Yeah> cause I got this bad disorder that nobody knows anything about.

Its AHP.

And nobody really knows what it is <a rare genetic> it's a rare genetic disease that affects your body and the body actually attacks itself.

But really what I wanted to talk about even in sickness and even in the hardships, you can learn stuff.

What I have learned more than anything else.

Through all this is love matters.

See, I've got three wonderful doctors.

And the important thing is it the best The most important thing you can look at a Doctora and see is, does he love his people?

The care is concern?

Will they go to their futherest extent to stand and I Oh could just praise, I got Dr. Jadore Dr. Dearew and Dr. Alexander there it is wonderful doctors.

They're in Florence I'm been so blessed with someone who cares for me.

That's what we need to look for.

Even in plants.

With a county agent or anybody does helping, you need to look see if they care at all.

If they care about what your plants are, maybe sometimes it's tough love, sometimes you may, I've had to tell people many a time that and your plan is going to die, you just plant some more.

Those things are not gonna live here.

And I hate to do that.

But I've had to do it a lot.

Because that's the truth, and we got to live on the truth.

it will go live on, if somebody loves you enough to tell you the truth.

That's so important.

<Then they'll have faith in you.> Yep.

So you've been able to see changes occur during agriculture, and share the improvements with your clients.

That's right.

And that's what that's what we supposed to do, is go out there and look at the world.

We have so much better than those early agents had, because now we can tell the people in other states we can talk to county agents, we could see things that are in print, all this research and all.

I think the most important thing is is a county agent, take those words that are written on those pages.

Say this is what this could do with your for your crops.

This is gone make you a better crop, and this could make you a better farmer.

And we did just talk to people about things that that's why people love somebody who sit with them, Well tell them this is the truth.

This is how it is.

We need to take this day to use this on your farm and make everything better.

In the beginning back there when the Extension started out people didn't understand that.

What was the Extension for?

Well, it is to bring that knowledge from all over, from the university's Clemson University and I weren't to gone say this.

Clemson University, When I was a kid growing up.

Clemson was thought of as our salvation army.

<Oh, really?> Yeah.

And we depended on Clemson.

We learned a lot from Clemson.

They were our hope.

Let's put it that way, Clemson was our hope.

We need to continue that with the county agents with Clemson University bringing a hope to the people of South Carolina because that's, that's what we need to live day to day out is a hope that things are always going to do better.

And that we're doing it based on research and truth.

And I think when you take research and truth, then people are going to be willing to believe and follow your advice.

Yep.

Yeah.

<Amanda> And one thing that I've learned from you is that all that book knowledge you still have to one important thing to do is to look at the plants.

That's right, <Tony> scout the plants.

Tell farmers, you can't windshield grow anything.

You got to go look at it and see that crop and look at what's going on and then you have a basis of what can be done to make your crops more healthier.

Okay, and much better.

<Amanda> Well and I'm just glad to see that you are looking better here today with us and that these wonderful doctors are finally finding some way to give you some relief and help and I can't wait for the old Tony Melton to come back who really filled that shirt out pretty tight.

({Laughing)} <Tony> Maybe a little bit too much.

Well, it was more to love how bout that wel'l wait for that day.

I have to really wait for that day continue and all.

With Making It Grow and hoping that we can help people of South Carolina grow.

We counting on you.

<Amanda> We will be having some more chats with Tony in the future.

So um, stay tuned for those.

I hope you enjoyed seeing him and I know that you wish him well and that he enjoys hearing from y'all if you want to drop them the card.

Our underwriter McLeod Farms who have grows over 29 varieties of peaches up there in McBee , South Carolina their corn maze this year is dedicated to Tony.

Check their corn mazes all over the state opening up.

It's a wonderful thing to do with your children on a coolish day.

And it's a lot of fun.

And most of them have a way that you can contact them if you're like me and get hopelessly lost, and someone has to come and rescue you.

So don't worry, you will not be having to spend the night in the corn maze.

Whatever you go to any of these places.

Do remember, though that they are outside and you might want to take some water.

And be sure to wear sunscreen because you know we do have to watch out for on the sun is important for plants, but it's not so great for our skin.

All righty.

Well, Terasa, I think that we've got another question coming up.

And what is this one?

>> Well, you know, there is never a shortage of questions.

This one comes from Anderson, Boyd reached out and said, I'd like to grow fall greens, but have limited space.

Are there any that grow more vertically?

<Amanda> Oh, well, it's true, some of them do seem to spread out a lot.

Keith, I know that you have some property and you have a pretty big garden.

And you also spent a lot of time back in the day when you were even younger than you still are with Roger Winn and Roger knows so many fascinating plants.

Do have some suggestions for us.

<Keith> I do.

You know, we have a number of places on our properties at work actually, that are quite densely planted.

But we do like to try to change things up the way they look and how we can use the space.

And something I'm trying this year is to try a couple varieties of what you might call a tree collard or a perennial kale.

And what these are plants that are the same species as kale or collards you might grow in your garden.

But they've been selected to kind of be almost perennial for us, or hardy to about 15 degrees Fahrenheit goodness.

And the neat thing about them is that they do tend to grow vertically with a couple of branches, instead of having to plant them out in rows and produce a lot of big leaves for use.

And it all kind of started with this one here, which is the purple tree collard.

It's been around for a very long time, grown in very small spaces.

And as you can see, it's really pretty lanky.

But will put out these really nice big green leaves.

And as they get to a point where it's too tall for you, you can just cut it right off and root the pieces.

<Come on.> And you can have more plants.

<It's pretty easy to root.> It's it's very easy to root.

Yeah, maybe even a cup of water, but definitely with a little bit of root tone, it would be good to go.

And so that's the purple tree collard.

And we got two other varieties right here.

They're a little bit newer.

And the one over here is called Big Blue tree collard and that one is apparently a hybrid between the original purple tree collard and the dinosaur kale that you may have seen a little bit kind of like a savoy cabbage maybe.

And maybe a little tighter than the original.

And then the third one that we have here is the allbritton kale, perennial kale.

It actually I think a rose in the European garden.

And it's really pretty because it has some variegation there you can see on the leaf edges, it's lovely.

So all three of these I think are really pretty actually and you know if you live in the Midlands to the coast, there's a really good chance that these are going to remain perennial for you throughout the winter.

<Amanda> they aren't going to boalt and go to seed, like our normal brassicas.

It's unlikely, like, they can do it.

It's possible, but it's very unlikely that they will.

So how do you keep that from year to year if So if you want to do that Keith.

So after a while, they are going to get kind of a little bit Woody's a little bit craggy.

And at that point is when you're going to want to take cuttings, yes, and start all over again, it may be a flat of soil, okay, and just renew your plant that way.

It's the easiest way to do it.

It's one it's the way these are produced commercially.

<Amanda> and then I imagine that what you do is you'd kind of act like we used to with tobacco and just take the lower leaves off when you want to cook some for supper.

That how you go about it if it gets too tall.

<Keith> Yeah, you know, if they get to be huge, they might get a little bit tough.

They're now near the bottom, but I'm also follow the same rule that probably after your first frost, you're gonna end up getting a little bit sweeter flavor on a lot of em.

>> How do people, is there a source where people can order these?

>> So I got these from a website called Project tree collard.

They sent me these as rooted cuttings.

Now, I would check out places like maybe Amazon or Ebay or somebody like that, where people might be selling these as cuttings, but they are becoming more popular.

Hmm.

So you might see them from regular seed suppliers, as well.

<Amanda> I think That's pretty fascinating.

Yeah, I mean, they're just a lot of fun.

And I imagine you know, so many people now have come to have patio you have moved your apartments in our patios, it seems like could just be the perfect thing to have.

They're done.

<Keith> I think they would be beautiful in a container you give mix them in with some ornamentals be really nice throughout the winter.

<Amanda> Yeah.

And it would certainly give you something to talk about.

Yeah.

Well, thank you so very much.

We really appreciate it.

Terasa, not only do we have the wonderful gardens for the week, but we have sometimes a highlighted garden if we got one of those this time.

<Terasa> I do Amanda.

This comes from Frederick Woodley of Moncks Corner, and he shared quite a few photos.

Frederick tells us he's got about two and a half acre wooded lot and he calls it his little slice of nature.

It includes some circular mulched beds and wildlife habitat elements.

He was really excited to show off his homegrown pineapple which started from the top of a grocery store obtained pineapple.

He said it took about two years, and at times, it had to be moved into his shop for winter.

But reports the pineapple was absolutely delicious.

Frederick is part of the community collaborative rain, hail and snow network, also known as CoCo RaHS.

And that's a grassroots volunteer network of back yard weather observers.

So thanks to Frederick for sharing your little slice of nature with all of us.

<Amanda> Well Terasa let's see what's come to the top of the pile of questions that people need help with?

<Terasa> Well, this one, it happens at my house.

So I can't wait to hear the answer.

Elijah from Camden said my family loves squash, but squash vine borers decimate our plants every year, what can we do?

<Amanda> Oh, that is a problem.

And I know you've even tried things like running wires up and stuff like that.

Paul, you've got a community garden that you've been working on.

So not only do you have experience of things at home, but you've got experience with a lot with big spaces that probably really attracted insects.

Is this something that you've got some ideas about?

<Paul> Yeah, well, I mean, vine borers are, are definitely problematic.

I mean, they're, they're sneaky moths.

They actually fly around during the day, but it doesn't take a second to lay an egg.

You know, they are a big problem.

And they were so much of a problem for us between the vine bores and the squash bugs.

<Amanda> Now the vine borer is the one that makes the vine at the stem of the crown crown.

<Paul> Gooey sawdust coming out of the vine and the vines collapsing and drying out.

But squash bugs are also problematic in a large number of squash bugs will wilt a squash plant and then there's also a squash beetle, which typically not too big of a problem, but sometimes I can be.

So there's a lot of squash pest and you know you squash are not an easy plant to spray for pest, because you know there are flowers there.

Once you're in flower, you know you've got bees constantly coming to the plant and it's just a difficult problem to deal with.

So I actually tried something this year.

You can you can go online and order.

Squash seeds that are parthenocarpic meaning that they produce fruit without pollination.

Okay, you'll still get the male and female flowers on the vine but they don't have to be pollinated though.

They'll just spontaneously produce the fruit.

And currently, like a seedless grapefruit aren't they was kind of like a seedless watermelon Type of idea.

But since you don't have to have pollinators, then there's no reason to have that then you can exclude that squash from the borers, by putting it behind some protection.

I ordered some fabric online that is like mosquito netting,type fabric, it's completely see through, you know, it doesn't exclude the light, it still allows good airflow through it, and put some hoops over the bed.

And, you know, put the material down and it worked quite well.

The only thing that didn't work was the beds were three feet wide, the material came in eight foot width.

And everything was hunky dory To start with, but after a while those squash plant get pretty big and start growing out of the bed.

And so eventually, you know, the squash bugs were able to breach the protection because the leaves and stuff for the crown was protected.

Yeah, the crown was protected, we never got the vine borer until we went ahead and decided to uncover just to be able to, you know, somewhat deal with the squash bugs that were there.

So you would just reach your hand under the cover and spot Well, we would pull up we would plan it where Okay, we're all gonna go harvest the squash so we would quickly roll off the cover, do what we had to do pull the weeds, pull off any bad leaves, whatever.

And kind of all be there doing that and then immediately covered.

Okay.

And, and that that seemed to work if the fabric hadn't been a larger dimension, you know, it probably would have worked the entire season.

<Amanda> you're so creative about structures.

What did you use to make the hoops if I might ask, <Paul> oh, I just use that PEX pipe.

You could buy PEX pipe as the new PVC.

It's a much more flexible Oh, you could fit a little bit and easily bends into a hoop.

your regular PVC could possibly use real small diameter but not as much more rigid.

So tell me what it's called again.

>> PEX.

>> PEX pipe, >> Don't ask me how to spell it.

<Amanda> If you went to a store and ask for it, they would know what it is.

Okay, I love is PEX or What.

And then you just ordered a new search fabric covers and found one that said it was the lightest one available or something like that.

<Paul> Right.

And it came in different dimensions.

These were 12 foot long beds.

So the dimensions that made sense for us was twenty by eight, - <Amanda> that's fascinating.

Thank you because I mean Terasa every year, you tell me that you're such a you try so hard to avoid pesticides that you're down there running wires in there trying to get rid of it.

I don't think you've had great success using that method.

<Terasa> Not really, I mean, I have taken satisfaction in at least killing.

But not a lot of success in nice and here.

<Amanda> Oh, well.

One thing is that this you know, you talked about the squash beetle we have now, there's always something new to worry about.

And sadly, a new invasive pest in South Carolina is a reptile.

And it's the Argentine or black and white tegu lizard.

We talked with Andrew Grosse who's with DNR and found out about why this animal is problematic and a danger to our native species and what you should do if you have one in your yard.

So let's go to Andrew Grosse and find out about this new invasive exotic species that is sadly now in South Carolina.

I'm speaking with Andrew Grosse, who is the state herpetologist for the South Carolina Department of Natural Resources.

Thanks for talking to us today, Andrew.

And I was really one of you sent out an email or I got a press release about these tegu lizards.

And apparently it's now becoming kind of illici Apparently, it's now becoming a lizard of concern and we got some restrictions about it.

Tell me where are they from and how are they getting up here and causing a problem in South Carolina, please.

>> So, Black and White tegu lizards, Argentine black and white tegu lizards is what we're talking about.

They are native to South America, Central America area.

They are very popular pets in the pet trade.

And we've seen them through the pet trade become established in Florida and Georgia.

Up until last year, we knew people kept them as pets but we hadn't had any confirmed sightings in the wild.

Since then, fall of last year, we've gotten 13 confirmed records of Black and White tegus in South Carolina.

all the way up in the mountains in Greenville County, down to Berkeley County, over near Florence, kind of the most sightings coming from the Columbia area.

So the reason it's a concern, and the reason we have the new regulations is that it's a non-native species.

So, anytime you take a species that's not native to a particular eco system, you're talking about, especially something as large as a tegu where they can get up to 3 maybe even 4 feet in the best cases.

When you throw something like that into an environment where it doesn't have many predators and some of the native species aren't used to it as a predator, it can have real native impacts on those native species.

So, you have the direct mortality, where they might be eating either the species of concern or also competing with those native species for food and shelter and some of the requirements they might need.

Also.

those indirect impacts of if they're harboring any kind of pathogens or parasites, and how that might impact some of our species that have never been exposed to some of these different things.

There's a lot we don't know about exotic species, but when they're kind of just thrust into our native ecosystems they can certainly have an impact.

We made these new regulations that started or that were passed at the end of May.

Essentially, what it is, anyone that owns a Black and White tegu or a hybrid of the Argentine Black and White tegu, is required to register it with the department.

What that means is you're required to go have it pit tagged by a veterinarian and then you fill out an application to register it with us.

Through that application, it's just your information where the animal will be held.

We, actually require a picture of the animal.

Then the pit tag or the microchip number on that application.

You get a permit.

You can keep that animal for the life of that animal but the permit is good for three years, at which point if you're still in possession of that animal and it's still alive, then you're required to renew that permit.

Along with those regulations, no reproduction, no importing of any new Black and White tegus.

Basically, what we have in this state, you're allowed to have, as long as they're registered and you're allowed to register those animals from the end of May until September 25th.

After September 25th, - hopefully all the animals in the state, that people have in captivity are registered.

>> So, I guess there's a fine if you wait until after that.

>> So, the maximum fine, if you're in violation of the law in not having your animal registered is up to 25 hundred dollars and a year in prison if you're in violation, but that's per animal, as well.

>> Per animal, okay.

So, we have breeders who have these reproduced and from what I understand, they're kind of small when they're born and so people don't - people say, "That's a nice little, interesting cool thing; and they order them and they can be shipped through the mail but then they get so big.

So, sometimes there's a tendency to say I just can't deal with this three of four foot animal anymore, and they get out.

Or you have them in a cage that no longer is strong enough to contain them.

Usually, I guess we thought they weren't going to be able to survive the winter.

Y'all are finding that in some places, they're surprising us?

>> Well, so this is maybe the mis-conception for a lot of these exotic species is that, while it's not their native environment so they can't survive.

Some of the things we're finding out, Black and White tegus aren't the first exotic to cause a problem, especially in the southeastern U.S. We're learning a lot more about some of these species and how they're able to kind of acclimate to some of their conditions or just how resilient they are to some of the different conditions.

Some of these species that haven't had to deal with some of the colder climates We just assumed they can't deal with them.

We're finding out that some of these animals can survive the colder winters.

Now, generally, if you have freezing temperatures and we get animals that are - a lot of these exotics are coming from places that are warmer climates.

So, if you do live somewhere that has consistently freezing temperatures, a lot of these animals can't survive, but when you're talking about somewhere like Florida, Georgia, South Carolina that does occasionally have these somewhat tropical, climates certainly in the summer.

Then occasionally, we have these mild winters.

If some of these species are able to find the right habitats they certainly can survive.

That's going back to what you were saying in some of these other states, Black and White tegus are established in Florida.

I think they have five populations there and two populations in South Georgia and South Georgia's ecosystem is very similar to the southern part of South Carolina, as well.

Knowing that, just across the Savannah River, we have tegu populations that are for all intensive purposes surviving and doing well.

We didn't want to take the risk, in finding these animals throughout our state and having any of those become established here in South Carolina, as well.

>> Our ground nesting birds, our own small reptiles and lizards and snakes and amphibians they're at risk.

The other thing is they're not protected.

So, if you're in an area out on your own farm property or some place where it is legal to use a firearm, these are not protected and you can shoot it.

If that happens, you want it brought to you because it's important for you to do necropsy, what do you call it on an animal?

>> Yes, ma'am.

So, one of the big, initially, one of the big things we wanted to know was when we got our first record of one, well, how wide spread are they?

How many are they?

Are there more in one particular area?

Do we have breeding populations?

But really knowing how they're dispersed across the state.

To kind of dive further into that is how are they surviving and when we know that they're across the state if we're able to get animals in hand to do these necropsies, we're able to learn so much more about them and how they're impacting our wildlife.

So, how big are they?

Are they males or females?

Looking internally, it's some of the - fat reserves and other things, their stomachs.

What are they eating?

How well are they doing?

Are they mature?

Are they reproducing?

That really helps us to make better decisions as managers.

Having more information is always good, and having that helps us make those more informed decisions.

>> If people wanted to get in touch with you with questions is there an e-mail that they can use to reach you?

I do have e-mail.

You can either go to our South Carolina DNR reptile and amphibian page.

At the bottom of that, there's an e-mail and phone number that comes to an inbox where we get questions in a lot of different things.

You can also email me directly, it's my last name, so Grossea@dnr.sc.gov.

That's my personal e-mail.

If you have - I tell people all the time, if you have questions, you take a picture of something, even if it's a native lizard I answer questions to ID native species all the time, just as well as exotic species.

I like seeing all of it.

Any other, it doesn't have to be tegus.

It doesn't even have to be native species.

Anything that you see, if I don't know the answer I'll try to figure it out for you.

>> Andrew, thank you for what you're doing.

I hope the citizens of South Carolina will respond positively so that we don't end up with another animal that's a threat to our native species, including I believe the gopher turtles which is an animal of concern.

So, thank y'all for the wonderful work you do at SC DNR.

Thank you for taking the time to talk to us today about it.

>> Absolutely, thank you.

>> If you don't grow okra, you'll see what happens if you don't go out every, at least every other day.

Really, you need to go out every day.

You have to look all around and the mosquitos are so bad it gets kind of hard till you want to run back inside.

This is what you'll get and this is too big to cook.

Anyway, this is a wonderful red okra that I got from Roger Winn.

I think you and Roger used to work together, didn't you, Keith?

You learned a lot from him.

It's just delicious, but when it gets this big it's not very good.

Anyway, I thought it would make a good hat, especially because my husband's been painting a portrait of me.

When he would come home I would say well, do I have horns on my head yet, because we've been married a long time.

Although we really get along good, 50 years is a long time to get married and there are some days when I probably deservingly, have horns on my head.

Anyway, you'll be glad to know that the horns are just on my hat today.

On the portrait, as you can see, I've got flowers in my hair instead.

So, I'm very glad that occasionally, I'm still - (laughs) that he still thinks of me that he's still glad he married me, at least I hope he is.

I'm glad I married him.

Anyway - Terasa, I think you got a question for us.

>> I sure do.

This is from Julie in Greer.

Julie says, I hope you can help me with an Azalea I need to get in the ground soon.

Is this a good time to plant?

I was going to wait a month or so for the weather to cool off just a bit.

I have a lemon lights Azalea in a container and where I'd like to plant it has a good bit of clay.

How do I amend the soil and plant this correctly for a healthy beautiful plant?

<Amanda> Keith, you sure have to plant things all the time, I'm sure.

Y'all are always developing new places up there.

What advice would you have?

>> Well, it's actually really good they asked the question now, before doing anything else.

That's always a good thing to do before you start, is to find out the right thing to do.

So, deciduous azaleas generally do pretty well in the Piedmont situation like she's describing when there's clay around.

A couple of things important to think about is to hold this plant somewhere shady and maybe a little bit cooler wherever that is in her landscape.

That would help to keep it healthy until it's time to plant which I really wouldn't do until October, probably mid to late October when it really is cooled down, and the second thing to think about is the space that you're going to plant it in.

If she can I would bring in ...some topsoil or compost to put on top of that clay.

I might work it in a little bit, but I would give something of maybe kind of a mound to put on top so to help the plant get established, because if it's a clay that's almost a hard pan that's going to be almost impossible, you'll end up digging a hole into the hard pan and that will act kind of like a bowl and the plant will be either floating in water or it'll dry out really quickly because of the potting material that's often included, which brings me to the third point and that is, even though azaleas have very fibrous root system, it's important to release as much of the potting materials as possible without damaging too many the roots before you get it in the ground.

>> And azaleas - no plants want to be planted low particularly, but azaleas and camellias, especially want to be planted high.

Paul, I've learned from you over the years not to be afraid to remove the soil from around the plant.

You've just told me that not to worry about it, because often I find that I need to, there might be some compacted roots.

That I might need to find that root flare.

You've turned me into devote of just not worrying about it, that and as Keith said sometimes you that medium that was on it might want to hold water and not - >> You just end up with two different soil types right next to each other.

You create this interface.

I like to get the roots into the soil they will be growing in.

But I would say of all root systems, sometimes azaleas can be the kind of toughest to deal with, because they got such fine fibers root.

It's more like a Brillo pad around the outside of the edge of the pot than it is a bunch of stringy roots.

So, in a lot of cases, it's just a matter of doing some vertical slicing around the root ball, because it's very kind of difficult to really dissect those root balls very thoroughly.

>> We do want to be sure that we don't have circling roots and girdling roots above the root flare.

Keith, I think one thing we need to remember, too, is that even though it's cooler, I think a plant, the first year you plant it, you've really got to give it supplemental irrigation, don't you?

>> It's first growing season.

Yes, absolutely.

Those people call them grow bags or Gator bags that you can buy at the store that you fill up and they have these little tiny holes in the bottom that release the water slowly, if you don't have a irrigation system in your yard.

>> I've used a plastic bucket from the progress store that I spray painted black and put a tiny little hole on the bottom in, if you don't have the - can't buy a grow bag.

You don't notice a black bag, I put a brick in it so it won't blow away.

Okay, Terasa, we have a little bit of time left.

Should we try to sneak one more in?

<Terasa> This question is from Pam in Manning and she shared some photographs.

Can you tell me what is happening to my Leyland Cypress, If needed, what to treat with.

Very tall trees and several in a row?

>> Oh.

Well, Paul, I'm not going to tell you to put on a happy face, because I don't think there's a happy answer to this.

<Paul> No, and that's aside from turf grass questions and tomato questions, Leyland Cypress come in number three on the top of the list of questions that I've gotten over the past several years.

Leylands are they really need space to be healthy.

Folks like to use them for screening plants.

But for that plant to be healthy.

It really, you need about a 15 foot spacing if you're going to be doing a hedge, and people don't want to wait that long for that to fill in.

One thing to consider when you're doing Leyland Cypress hedges is you're going to over-plant and start with but a few years down the road when they get established.

And before they get too big, where it's a chore, start thinning out every other one.

<Amanda> Alright.

>> In her situation, she's already got large plants.

She's probably not going to go that route now.

She's got one of two, one of the two canker diseases, based on the symptoms that you see in the photographs of individual random branches that are completely brown within the canopy.

Seiridium canker and Botryosphaeria canker both cause lesions on the stems of the plant.

And they can be there for a little while before the canker actually grows all the way around the stem, and girdles the stem.

Once it girdles the stem that's when you get the die back.

So the disease has been present in the plant.

You know, for several years, usually before you see some of the symptoms showing up.

There's really no fungicide treatments or anything for this disease, >> - even so, 30 feet tall, hard to spray, >> They are both stress related diseases, usually it's drought.

But you know, there are instances where it can be caused by overly wet soils too.

But any kind of stress on the tree weakens the tissues and allows these two fungi a way to cause problems.

>> - cause problems.

>> So when you have it, it's a matter of pruning it out and removing it.

<Amanda> - removing that tree.

>> No, removing the infected branches.

>> Okay.

Most times, it's going to be removing them all the way back to the trunk of the tree.

Now, on a big tree like that, I don't know how she might do it.

She might have to call in somebody to do it.

If you don't take it out, then the fungus can continue to grow in the stems.

And if it eventually gets down into the trunk tissue, then you can cause a lot larger portion of the tree to start tying back.

>> Don't we now generally encourage people not to use just one plant and a hedge in case something like this happens.

>> Yeah, I've often recommended, use mixed hedges.

Monocultures are your enemy.

When you plant too many of one thing, you're asking for problems If something happens then you have all these various susceptible plants.

>> Alright, well, honestly, I'm with you.

That is a question that just happens all the time.

It makes me so sad because people have often, they rely on that hedge and they're not going to have it much longer.

I want to thank all of y'all for being here today.

Terasa, thanks for the questions.

Thank y'all for all the wonderful show and tell.

Thank you at home for being with us.

We hope we'll see you right here next Tuesday on Making it Grow.

Night, night.

♪ ♪ ♪ Making it Grow is brought to you in part by the South Carolina Department of Agriculture Certified South Carolina Grown helps consumers identify, find, and buy South Carolina products, McLeod Farms in Mcbee, South Carolina.

This family farm offers seasonal produce including over 22 varieties of peaches, additional funding provided by International Paper and the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance.