Hello, and welcome to The Bookmark.

I'm Christine Brown, your host.

Today we're giving you a very special episode filmed on location in KinderHill Brew Lab in Bryan, Texas, To talk about the book "Texas Hikes and Brews: A Rambler's Guide to a Perfect Day."

My guests are Jay Maddock and Debra Kellstedt.

Thank you both so much for being here to talk about this exciting book.

- -Thank you.

- -Thanks for having us.

- -Well, I think the title kind o says it all, but can you introduce this book to us?

- -Sure.

So what we did in this book is we went around to 24 different hikes across Texas, and we paired them with a craft brewery that was nearby.

The idea is that you would go hiking and then have a beer to talk about it afterwards.

And we actually stretched our hikes all the way from almost the Louisiana border to Big Bend.

And so it really gives a nice cross-section of the state of Texas.

- -How did the idea for this book, how did it come to be?

- -Well, it actually started in 2020.

And so we all know in 2020 was a pandemic.

And, Jay and I, work together, we do research together, and we decided to do our weekly meetings by taking a walk in our neighborhoods.

And after a few weeks of doing that, we got really bored of walking in the neighborhood.

And so Jay came up with a great idea.

I was starting kind of like a little hiking group and getting together every weekend to do hikes.

And, I am a marathon runner.

And I talked to Jay about, well, if you're going to do something physically active, we need a reward at the end.

And my reward when I would run marathons was getting a cheeseburger, like finding the best cheeseburger in town.

And Jay is like, well, what's going to be our cheeseburger?

And your idea was... - -My idea was craft beer.

You know, it's a wonderful thing.

And what we loved about is actually helps build communities.

Breweries are wonderful places to get together and talk.

And throughout the book, we actually brought around different people with us.

So we list at the beginning of every chapter who actually hiked with us.

And there's a revolving cast of about 6 to 8 different people that have joined us on different hikes.

- -Including dogs, family members.

It was great.

- -That's really fun.

I think what a lot of people think.

Texas A&M University Press, they think that we only publish books by name professors, which isn't, of course, true.

We publish books by scholars all over the country, all over the world.

Independent scholars who aren't affiliated with the university.

In this case, you both are A&M professors.

But I think when people would think of a book published by A&M professors, they wouldn't be thinking hikes and and beer.

But it is actually, connected to the work that you do professionally.

Can you talk about how this connects back to your work?

- -Yeah.

I direct something called the Center for Health and Nature.

And so we look at the healing power of spending time in natural environments.

And so hiking is one of the best ways to connect with natural environments.

So we really said let's look at this and let's try to find places in Texas.

Texas is not known typically for hiking.

Right.

And so I moved here from Hawaii, which is known for being outdoors.

And so I was like, hey, let's, let's try to get this to the public in a way that's easily digestible.

And then the blue side where you might be like, why is public health professor writing about drinking beer?

It really was about building community.

The surgeon general has said that we have a loneliness epidemic in America, and really, we don't have connections to people anymore.

And breweries are a way that we can create strong social ties and get people together.

And, Deb was actually one of our doctoral students in the School of Public Health, and that was doing amazing work with extension when I talked about that.

- -Yeah.

I, am on the faculty at Texas A&M Agrilife extension Service.

And so my work actually takes some of this research that we do together and puts it on the ground and programmatic work.

And, you know, an extension.

We cover agriculture.

We do things all over the state in every county.

So this really was a great way to connect me with the different counties.

The different regions of our great state, and just the vastly diverse like topography and, ecosystems in the whole, in the whole state.

So it's been a great journey to like, learn more about the whole state in that way.

- -Yeah.

You mentioned that we're not known for great hikes.

And I think that, you know, we're not Colorado.

We're not Hawaii.

But I do love that you highlighted the different kinds of landscapes, the different areas of our state.

We do have a lot to offer and a diverse amount of climate, terrain, all that, all that good stuff.

- -Yeah.

One that stands out to me is McKinney falls.

And so I'm sure many of the viewers and listeners of the show have been to the Austin airport, and there's kind of this industrial area with a lot.

You're like, it's kind of boring stuff.

And you literally go a mile behind the airport and you find these waterfalls and this great hike and it's like, wow.

And that's what we wanted to do with this book, is to take places that people may not have been, that could be really close by and be like, you know, there's amazing, beautiful, natural scenery.

That's right behind the corner often.

- -Yeah.

I did want to highlight that you of course, there are some, you know, big bands in here, some of the usual suspects, but if not all the usual suspects, you did find a lot of those off the beaten path.

Maybe not.

Nobody's been there to really highlight these these hidden gems that we have in our state - -And related to that, on the hike we did McKinney falls, we went to Live Oak Brewery, and that also is just kind of tucked away, by the airport.

And there's beautiful oak trees.

You wouldn't know that you're just in such an urban environment when you're there.

We felt so protected and it was quiet.

So same thing with the breweries.

We didn't want to go to the the big breweries that everyone's heard of, even though, you know, Saint Arnold Shiner, all those are great breweries for Texas.

We wanted some that were off the beaten path.

- -Absolutely.

There's this is like a great checklist of new places to try, new beers to find.

That's really fun.

You I want to talk about how the book is laid out because you kind of start with, Aggie Land is your home base, and then.

And then go out from there.

- -Yeah.

So, you know, we kind of played around with different organizational schemes for this.

And, you know, because it's Texas A&M, perhaps because we live here in College Station, we wanted to start.

And what can you actually get to from College Station what hikes are close by.

And then we looked at the Houston area again, an area that's really not known for hiking.

And so what's around Houston.

What's the amazing hikes there.

And then Austin we start getting into the more jaw dropping hikes and the Hill Country area.

And then out west we're really some of the most fantastic hiking in.

So really depending on where you live and what type of trip you want to do, you can plan the number of hours it's going to take you.

And I want to say out of the 24 hikes, the vast majority, probably 18 of them, were day trips from College Station, which is wonderful, and day trips from Houston and day trips from Austin.

And so there's only a few of those big bucket listers, which you might need a full weekend for sure.

- -And there's still a lot to go.

I mean, we really did take kind of the center of Texas.

So you'll find in the book that, you know, we don't yet have a lot we don't have anything in the valley or up in the north.

And so those might be some future projects.

- -Part Two: More Texas Hikes and Brews.

I do also like that at the start of each chapter, you have kind of just the facts you talk about, of course, where is where the brewery, where the hike is, but also the kind of accommodations you can find if there's restrooms or not.

How many steps?

All of that stuff, just to give people an overview of of what they're going to find when they get there.

- -Yeah.

We really wanted to kind of have just a little bit of a cheat sheet on what to look for, how far to go.

You know, if you're going with your kids or your dog or maybe an elderly parent, like what's going to be an a hike that's actually going to meet your needs, making sure if you stop at a restroom before you go, which is a big deal.

The state parks have fantastic facilities.

National forests have just about nothing.

And so that's really important to know.

And we found that out as we went to our first one went, oh, we're just in the forest here.

Yeah.

And so important to know ahead of time.

- -I think I would think oh it's a, it's a, it's a state, it's a national thing.

It's going up.

No there's, they're primitive way.

You're just out in the woods.

Yeah.

Which is great if that's what you.

Yeah.

If you know what you're getting into.

Yeah.

The accommodation thing I think is really important, to make sure that all skill levels.

Because as you say, it's important we all get outside.

And we don't want physical limitations to, to stop that.

So.

Yeah, I really love that you talked about how difficult it is or that you could tailor the experience.

You know, some of them around back.

So you can just go as far as you can and come back, which I think is lovely.

- -And what's great about our state parks in addition to the facilities, is we would always try to talk with the park ranger before we'd have some idea of what we wanted to hike, but it really was talking to the park ranger that would shape that.

They would say, oh no, that trail's closed or it's really muddy today.

And or, you know, this is one you don't want to miss.

So talking to the park ranger was really important.

And then having, the maps that they provided and we don't have a lot of maps in this book, because there are wonderful maps.

At the state parks, we used an app called All Trails, which was a great app, that had wonderful maps in it as well.

So, really good to talk to the park ranger and get a map before you go hiking.

- -Yeah, there were a lot of, like, pro tips, for, for how to do how to do this successfully.

Talking to the park rangers was one.

You also talked about the benefits of an annual pass to our state parks.

- -Yeah.

It's amazing.

I mean, for for one fee, you can go to every park in the state, and it really it's a money saver and it's for everyone in your car.

- -That was the thing.

And that's a neat thing.

You know I think it's a it's probably around $80 right now.

I know it's gone up a little bit.

Yeah.

But you can go and so we would carpool in there, be four of us or five of us in one car, and it might be $7 per person to go one time, or $80 for the entire carload for the year.

And so I highly recommend the Texas State Park pass, National Park Pass, if you're going to more than just big band, is also a really good way to save money.

- -Absolutely.

- -And some of them you had to plan ahead.

We certainly did.

During the pandemic.

You had to add a reservation to get into the parks.

But even now, when we've been hiking some of the parks, especially the popular ones, you have to look ahead and see if you can get a reservation to make sure you can get it.

- -Yeah, that's not something I would have thought about.

I mean, it makes sense, of course, if everybody and that's what we want everybody to go to the parks, but there's going to be a little bit of a bottleneck or a traffic jam.

So that reservation is a great tip - -It's important, and especially if you're thinking of something personal falls.

And they do timed entry.

And so you can get like a 9 to 12 or a 1 to 4 entry.

And they are serious about it.

So we went to Personalis and we were a little bit early.

We maybe showed up around 1240 and the gates were closed and everybody was sitting there waiting.

And at 1:00 they opened them up.

So, know that if you do have a reservation, it's timed.

They're serious about that time and you're not get again if you it's not the time.

But you know the higher volume ones who definitely want to, reserve in advance.

- -Now, how did you go about picking up this, all the hikes you did or did you tailor just the best ones?

How did you pick what goes in the book?

- -We have done some that weren't included in the book, the in different regions of the state.

But this kind of just evolved over time.

We would go to a hike on one weekend, and then we would talk about what we wanted to do next.

And, this all took place over the course of about a year.

And so we were hiking three times a month every weekend.

So, yeah, we would talk and we would say, well, how far do we want to go next week?

Can we, you know, start from Austin.

Are we going to start from College Station?

And then that was how we would figure it out, and it would be, where we could get a reservation.

So inks like happened because we couldn't get a reservation.

You actually maybe wanted to go to enchanted Rock, I think.

And we couldn't get into enchanted Rock.

And so we decided to go to Inks Lake instead.

So we had to be kind of flexible.

And that was that was how we decided which which hikes we were going to go on and which ones are going to be included.

- -I do want to highlight, yeah, you said all in a in a certain amount of time.

This was all year round.

You were hiking in August, which I can only imagine is not easy.

- -Yes, we have an infamous hike in August, actually.

- -Yeah.

So it was our second hike in the book.

We were out in the Sam Houston, National Forest, and sometimes I'm not the best navigator.

And so we maybe took a little bit of a wrong turn and turned it into a 11 mile hike.

And so that was, hot and sweaty, and I ran out of water and got kind of, tired.

Yeah, but we survived.

And so we talk in the book about things like pre-hydration, really important to, you know, drink a couple of big glasses of water before you go to make sure that you're carrying plenty of water with you.

And then we always had a cooler of water in the car when we got back.

And really, if you're going to hike in August in Texas, have to be hydrated.

Protecting your head from the sun to a broad brimmed hat is really important.

Make sure you do have sunblock on.

You can hike year round in Texas.

And we certainly we did Double Lake, which is another fantastic hike nearby.

And it was probably 15 degrees cooler on the hike than it was, you know, out in an urban area like Houston.

And so you can hike year round.

And it's actually a treat, you know, something you can do outside and enjoy even in the hottest part of the year.

- -And we were drawn to the shadi hikes in August.

Yeah, we knew that we wanted to be surrounded by trees and not just rocks.

And in addition to water, we would pack snacks.

We would always have these snack breaks.

It felt like sometimes, like we were preschoolers for a snack break.

But yeah, we would have our food.

We would have our water.

Again, knowing your directions is really important.

So we did learn, to look at our map, like if we were using all trails and actually take a screenshot of the trail, because you don't always have service when you're deep in the forest.

So that's one of my pro tips to make sure you take a screenshot of that map.

- -Also, going earlier in the day In the summer, I think you did a lot of those summer hikes.

Nine a.m., ten a.m.

- -We left first thing in the morning.

Yeah, we were not going at two in the afternoon.

No.

- -Yeah.

And something you just said reminded me at several places in the book, you talk about finding a water feature or something that made you want to play it.

It made you feel like kids again.

That's one of those magical things about being out in the wilderness is that you find that connection to your younger self.

- -Yeah.

And I'm actually, a water person, which we always talked about on our hike.

So I'm, I'm from Michigan originally, and I grew up near Lake Michigan.

So every hike we went on, I was eager to find the water feature.

They were always like, oh, we'd have to find water for them.

So if it was a river, a lake, a stream, a waterfall, we would find it and I would be in it.

So there are pictures of me in the water and we talk a lot about the water in the book because of my need to go see the water, and we found water almost everywhere.

Some of the urban hikes in Austin had dried like riverbeds and things like that.

But even in Austin we could find some really neat falls in water.

So water was great.

- -Yes, we even walked down the Rio Grande.

So yeah, we got full on the water.

- -Yeah, that was a fun story.

- -That was that was a fun one.

Yeah.

- -So when you're, when you're putting two this together, what makes a great hike.

What makes it good.

- -Wow.

I think, you know, diversity of terrain really makes things good.

One of the reasons we love the Hill Country is that you do have some elevation that you can get in, and you get these great views.

The water features make a big difference.

And then I think just having, several trails to choose from, that you can choose how much and how far you want to go makes that great hike.

And I think the biggest thing is getting away from, from, civilization.

You know, we were in out in Big Bend Ranch State Park, which is very, you know, a lot of people don't go there.

They go to the Big Bend, the Ranch State Park.

We were there probably for 4 to 5 hours, and we passed two cyclists.

And that was all the people that we saw for the entire day.

And we sat and took a break and you couldn't hear anything.

And it was just amazing.

There was no man made noise.

We were far enough away from a road, and that was like a stunning one that we weren't expecting, because everyone talks about the national park.

But that's what a great state park.

- -And I think connected to that is that feeling of awe that you're going to get.

So you'll get that.

And almost any type of hike that you do.

But that hooks back to the research that we do that really the one of the benefits of nature when you experience that.

And so the I could be in a waterfall the elevation but on and hikes that didn't have that we actually found, you know, beautiful plants and insects and, and small things like that, that could create that feeling of, one hike we did in February, in the Houston area.

And it snowed the week before.

And so we actually got to hike in the snow.

And that was amazing to do that in Texas.

- -A rare treat in Texas.

Yeah.

I also liked in some of the some of the trails you went on, they had bird blinds.

So a place you could kind of hide out and watch a little bit of nature, hopefully see a bird or see a deer or see some other kind of critter.

- -Really fun.

I think it has one of the best ones.

And we actually went back and visited Inks Lake.

Just a couple of weeks ago, and we ended up in the middle of a rainstorm.

And so we were there for 30, 40 minutes and there were birds everywhere.

And it just it's such a great place if you do find them.

A lot of them are made by Master Naturalist.

And it's a great place that you can see the birds, they can't see you.

So you see them in their natural habitat and really just so fun to connect with that.

- -Oh, that reminds me: the... you mentioned the master naturalists have have done a lot of work to keep our parks looking great.

Also, the Civilian Conservation Corps, a lot of the features we find built in these parks were built, you know, back in the 30s, which is amazing that they're still standing and still providing us with joy and with experiences.

- -We tried to highlight that.

So if we saw something that was built by the CDC, we would take a picture and, make sure we recorded that.

And it was really quite amazing to see that in almost every state park we went to is something and even, Eagle Scout projects.

So we would go to parks and we would see that a bridge or a part of a trail, was an Eagle Scout.

That, that did that.

So that was really amazing to see all the work that's done in the parks.

- -Yeah.

I think one of my favorites, there's a hike in Austin where there's this big tree that goes right around where my head is going to be, and it's been nicknamed the noggin knocker.

And they put up a little first aid kit next to door for you.

Just got a project.

I'm like, how funny is that?

But, just.

And I love the history of the CCC.

I think, you know, it really helped get, the US out of the depression and gave jobs and really created lasting stuff that's like no one was 100 years old now.

And these structures, some incredible lodges and other things that are still there, - -It's wonderful.

Okay, let's switch to the brewery part.

What makes a great brewery?

What are you looking for when you're when you're going to visit a craft brewery?

- -Well, I, wrote and we actually divided what we would write for the book.

And Jay wrote a lot about the hikes, and I wrote a lot about the breweries and, I'm actually not a beer kind of sewer.

I mean, I like to go to a brewery.

And so for me, it was really about the whole atmosphere.

So at a place like here, like Kendell Hill, it's about the beer, but it's about, sitting outside and what you can do with friends and family.

And also, I love a brewery that provides some snacks or food, and that was always a really important part, especially after hiking.

We would be pretty hungry.

So, a great brewery to me has not only, a nice variety of different, beers you can choose from, but just this wonderful, friendly, family friendly, dog friendly atmosphere and really nice place to be outside.

- -I know this is probably an impossible question, but do you have favorite both hikes and brews in the book?

- -Well, I'll start with my favorite hike was probably Petronella Falls.

Because of the water.

And it was really, quite a surprise when we got down to the, the start of our hiking and, and saw the beautiful falls and the rocks and, we actually got to wade through the river to get on one of our hikes.

So that was a really fun hike and a favorite for me.

And then a favorite brewery is one in Marble Falls, Texas, called Save the World.

And at the time we went there, it was the only brewery that was in our list.

That was a nonprofit.

And, the atmosphere there again, is like the beautiful outdoor space, wonderful selection of beer.

And it was just- we just had a great time at Save the World.

- -And it was all Belgian beers at the time... - -Yeah, yeah.

It was really nice - -...which is a fantastic style and wonderful.

I'd say my favorite hike would be Inks Lake, and I loved the lake and it's there's two sections of the park, there's one that's around the lake, which is fantastic, and that bird blind.

And then there's another one, and the terrain is like walking on the moon.

It's really like almost.

You can't believe those two places are adjacent to each other.

And so that was really fun for me to get to different experiences in one hike.

And then, my favorite brewery is Lone Pine, which is at Magnolia, not too far away from us.

And, they do yellow Rose of Texas, which is one of my favorite beers.

And you can actually get that in HBS and College Station, which is wonderful.

And so, and as Deb said, I think what a lot of people haven't been to breweries, don't know, is how family friendly they are.

And so they have, yard games and everything at, at Lone Pine.

And there's kids there.

They usually have live music.

And when we were there, there was a lobster truck.

So we got lobster rolls, which just made a perfect, trip for us.

- -I want to highlight... I don't- I can't taste my favorite cause I have that all these hikes.

But, you do go to Lake Summerville, which, when y'all were talking to people, not a lot of people know about Lake Summerville.

And I grew up going to.

So that one has, like, a nostalgic, memory for me.

We go fishing there, we go camping there.

I just love that.

That's a that's a close by one that if people don't know about it, they should go visit.

- -And what's neat about that is we actually went twice.

There's a trailhead on the north side of the lake, and there's a trailhead in the south side of the lake, so you can do it twice.

You can get in the water, you can get a kayak.

I mean, it's and I want to say maybe we see ten, 15 other people in the park, like it's quiet and it's less than an hour from Aggie land.

So a great starter.

Yeah.

And pretty easy flat, etc.

though we did see a Copperhead one time we were there, so be careful and watch your feet.

- -And we went at different times of the year to the two different times so that it's like a different hike.

I think people think if you go to a state park once that, oh, I've done that one, I'll check it off my list.

But when you go again at a different time of year, you're you're going to see totally different types of flora and fauna and it's a different experience.

So I would recommend going back to some of the same places again, - -I love this book.

I hope this book inspires people.

I mean, you, you've given them a starter, our starting map.

But there's going to be new craft breweries opening everywhere.

There's new state parks coming, you know, in these next few years.

So, I hope people find more trails and find more beers after they've done everything in the book.

- -Yeah, I think this is really a starter.

And I think we want to get people excited about this and excited about these type of itineraries.

And we've added since we wrote, we've been out to Palo Duro Canyon, which is also amazing.

I wish it was in the book.

I think it's second edition, and so we've been checking off other ones as we go through, and we keep doing this.

- -And one of my programs, that I'm doing with my job in extension is called Get Outside.

And I'm trying to do things to help families spend more time together outside.

And so I have been encouraging people in my work to, connect with our state parks and to go to, some of these places across the state that they might not even know are in their backyards.

So my hope with that, with a book like this is to actually help people experience that joy and connection to nature, and, get back some of that time with their families and friends and, and just get all those benefits that we got from doing these hikes.

- -Well, you might have just answered my question, but, we're we're running out of time here.

So in our final three minutes, what do you hope people take away from this book and from this project?

- -To me, you know, having moved here from Hawaii, it was about capturing the natural beauty of Texas, really?

I, I knew the creek, and that was about it when I got into this, and I'm like, I'm.

My jaw dropped so many times.

And how beautiful this state is.

And I think if people can get on these hikes and realize how amazing this is, and then our craft brewery scene is booming and every single one in here has great beer, you will find great beer in every brewery that you go to.

It really has become an incredible market, and I think just a great way to spend, spend a weekend for us.

- -I think my hope is that, you know, the book is made up of our stories, and each chapter really is a little story about the hike and about the brewery.

And I would hope that people's takeaway would be to go to some of these places and make their own story, have their own social connections like we had, had their own time in nature, away from the hustle and bustle of life, and just to have their own story that they can create.

- -I think this does do that.

I mean, having read it, I want to... I want to go to these places I want to talk to about that.

I love the people aspect of it, too.

We talked about the nature lot, but talking to people, talking to other hikers, talking to, bartenders that like it's it's about connection, as you say, and the nature.

I just think it's a wonderful, inspirational, starting place.

So, thank you both so much for for being here and for and for putting this book together.

- -Thank you.

We love doing it.

- -Thanks.

- -And I also want to say thank you to KinderHill Brew Lab for hosting us here in their lovely space right in downtown Bryan It's a beautiful location, beautiful outside area.

So I hope you can get a chance to visit if you haven't done so already.

Well, that's all the time we have for today.

Thanks so much for joining us.

The book again is "Texas Hikes and Brews," and I will see you again soon.