(gentle music) (gentle music expands) (gentle music persists) (gentle music prevails) - Hello and welcome to the Bookmark.

I'm Christine Brown, your host.

Today, my guests are George Bristol, author of Texas State Parks: The First One Hundred Years, 1923-2023, and Jennifer Bristol, author of Parking Lot Burning: A Fun Guy to Discovering Birds in Texas.

Thank you both so much for being here.

I'm so excited to talk about both of these books, but I wanna start with the big one, (laughs) the full hundred year history of our state parks.

And if you're an avid watcher or listener to the show, you know, we had the art book, the Art of Texas State Parks, and this is not officially.

but kind of a companion piece there, because this is the full history of our park system.

So can you tell us why are parks so important to you, and why did you wanna write this book?

- I think it's, some of it's just the DNA that people like parks, other people like architecture, other people like this and that.

But I've always been drawn to parks, mainly because they were a free way to do business in, when we grew up in the, after the war, the second World War.

They're a place to go for free.

My mother was a school teacher, didn't make a lot of money.

So we went to parks in Austin where I grew up a lot.

We had neighborhood swimming pools in parks.

We had Bastrop Park, we had just down the road, Pedernales Park.

So we got our share of parks.

And then in 1960, I mean, 1961, I got a job at Glacier National Park in Montana, two summers in a row.

And it kinda stuck on me.

I served for four to six years, on the National Park Foundation and came back.

Not came back to Texas, but when that term was up, I went to see my friend Andy Sansom, who was head of Parks Wildlife, and did the arts in the park book.

We share information all the time.

And he said, "We need money."

M-O-N-E-Y, spelled it out.

And that's, that took me 18 years, but we finally got in 2019, the Prop 5 constitutional amendment, that froze all funds from the sporting goods sales tax, must go to parks.

They can't be diverted or they can't be held.

And just to put a lid on it, we had an election in 2019, and we got 88% of the vote.

That's a pretty healthy margin to have, and the legislature pays attention to it.

I can't tell you since then how many legislators said, "I'm not gonna fiddle with parks", you know, (Christine and George laugh) I can read numbers too.

So all of that led to a conversation in 2019 with Executive Director, Carter Smith of Parks and Wildlife, about maybe writing a book for the centennial.

And interestingly enough, the next week, a very nice woman ran up on the stage, where I was making the speech and said, "Could you write a book about state parks?"

(Christine laughs) She was tied in with TCU press.

So within a week's time, and I know how hard it is to get things published, I had a sponsor, a publisher, and an idea of what I wanted to write.

(Christine laughs) And it came out in January of this year.

- I think that's another example of how popular parks are.

The idea of a book about them is just as popular as wanting to fund them.

- Interestingly enough, and Jennifer, you help me if I, I think the first run was 1,750 and I think we've got about four or 500 left and probably by mid-April.

So we're gonna be into a second edition, so.

- And the years just started, - [Jennifer] That's right.

- So we're gonna be celebrating all year long with this book.

- I wanna, let's start at the beginning a little bit.

Can you talk about the birth of our state parks, and we can't talk about that without talking about Governor Neff and his involvement in the founding.

- It's interesting you bring it up that way.

There was a group that was before Pat Neff, or David Galberg, or anybody else for that matter.

And that was the Women's Groups of Texas.

So I'm gonna kind of throw it back to you, and ask you to ask Jennifer (Christine and Jennifer laugh) about women in parks.

- Yes, please, there's a whole chapter in here about the role of women and women's clubs, and women's groups on our park system.

- That's right.

And, thanks dad.

The women were already looking at how do they, you know, how do we have local parks, especially for children getting 'em outdoors and, you know, either evolving out of the, you know, the industrial revolution, the second industrial revolution.

You know, there's factories, you know, you're living in towns where there's, you know, wood-burning stoves everywhere.

There's no paved streets, it's dusty, it's hot, it's, you know, the air quality is really, really poor.

And so they're looking to nature as a place to be healthy and get their children outdoors, and to be healthy.

And so this was, this was already kind of a big theme within the Federation of Women's Clubs, and the Garden clubs who were kind of simultaneously working on these things.

And they were their own entity, because they could not participate in the political apparatus, and so they had basically their own political structure on the side.

And of course, Pat Neff knew that very well, and as his way of saying, you know, thank you for once they did get the vote and helping him, you know, become elected, he appointed three women from the Federation of Women's Clubs onto the very first state parks board.

And from there, they were able to, you know, call upon their sisterhood in all these communities.

I mean from Haskell, Texas to Beaumont, to Brownsville to Amarillo, it didn't matter.

They were corresponding in letters.

You know, this is all pre-cell phone, pre-computer, pre-paved highways, you know, pre-fun fares on a jet to go up to somewhere, you know, they're writing letters, they're visiting with each other at conferences, and the level of trust that they had in each other to really get these things done, was really impressive in reading some of those letters, and those correspondences.

But as they, as they were focusing on this, they were also focusing on what was called, "the good roads."

And their motivation for good roads was a little bit different than David Colp's motivation for good roads, because they were wanting to get rural skilled children safely to public schools and to have healthcare within the community.

Those were the kind of the big things.

So they're tying parks in with health, they're tying good roads in with education.

And it was just a perfect, you know, combination that David Colp then later, you know, sort of taps into.

He's looking at good roads as economic driver, and, of course, for the car industry, which is, you know, just arriving in Texas and the oil industry, which is also just arriving in Texas at the same time.

So, you know, those motivations help drive each other, and made the women very, very interested in this issue.

And then thankfully Pat Neff not only recognized it, but had the political courage to say, "Hey, I want, you know, these women on my team to really help move this forward."

And then we also had the very first woman who was elected as a senator is the one that put forth the bill, to create the, not just create the state parks board, but then to accept, more importantly, the parks.

So the idea was that good citizens around Texas would give lands for the park system.

And that's where the women also came in, so importantly, 'cause they would, they already knew all these people who were willing to give, you know, some land, and just reached out and called, "Hey, I know you've got, you know, that beautiful waterfall, can we come look at it?"

Or, the Pine Forest in Bastrop, you know, "Can we have a look at that?"

So they were calling upon all these people, and were able to get it done.

So Marjorie Neal, you know, puts the bill forward, it passes and, you know, it was a big, a big win for women at that time who were helping out in that way.

And then they continued on.

They had David Colp and Neff had visions for kind of smaller parks along these good roads.

And Phoebe Warner, who was on the state park board, and Florence Martin, they wanted bigger parks.

(background chatter) They were really thinking kind of bigger things.

Phoebe was thinking real big in Palo Duro Canyon.

That was her focus.

Florence Martin wanted Caddo Lake, and that was kind of one of her focuses.

So, you know, they went on to sort of push for those things.

But the first ones, you know, again, it was just that, that wonderful kind of merging of, of these two visions of what they wanted the parks to do, and what they wanted the good roads to do.

So it was really fun writing the chapter, and it was really, really fun writing it with dad.

(Christine laughs) So it's great.

- We didn't mention this at the top.

This is our first father-daughter, - [Jennifer] Oh (chuckles).

- Appearance, not just together, but at all.

I haven't had a father-daughter author, on period.

So this is a new first.

I love having firsts on the show, (Jennifer chuckles) so double excited that you're here to talk about that.

But I really enjoyed that chapter because it, it really showed that even without political power, or traditional power, the power of organizing of grassroots, of having a cause you believe in, and want to make happen.

- [Jennifer] And they wrote beautifully about it, in the newspapers, you know, really calling on not just the chapters, and the sisterhood, but, you know, with all citizens, you know, all parents calling upon them, especially for their children.

You know, they really saw it as, again, there was this massive change at the time, you know, landscapes were changing, you know, oil derricks were coming up, you know, there was this big kind of like feeling that pressure of, "Oh, we need to preserve this for our kids and future generations."

So, it was great.

It was fun writing it.

- Wonderful.

So now can we talk about Patrick Neff a little bit?

- [George] Sure.

(Christine laughs) - So can you talk about his, his goal for the first park, was to be the, to get back to the women's issue too, was his mother's land that she had donated.

- [George] Right.

Neff was a mixed bag of tricks.

He was brilliant, he was passionate about the issues.

He was a progressive back then, and that was really roads, education, prohibition.

And so he had a rough first session, and he didn't pass the parks bill the first timer out.

It took 1923 to get the bill passed, but it also set a predicate, which haunted us up until 2019.

And that was, they passed the bill, and created the state park board, but they gave 'em no money, except a little for travel expenses.

So Neff turned to David Colp, who was his Chairman of the State Park Board, and they decided they would go on a barnstorming tour of Texas, which they did three different times, five, six, seven, eight cars.

And they'd always, it was interesting, and sometime they had the elected representatives there, sometime they didn't.

But they always had the Chairman of the Highway Commission, because in my opinion, the town folks were really more interested in that highway, than they were in the parks.

(group laughing) And so, Pat Neff was smart enough to try and help 'em out, but he also had one or two of the women board members along, and they got nice write-ups in the paper, et cetera, et cetera.

And then he went out of office, and as soon as he got out of office in 1927, the legislature turned over 23 parks, should have been 27, but it was 23.

But again, they were underfunded, understaffed, and it really kind of was a dormant agency for several years.

But David Colp kept trying, and he got away from the small park concept, 'cause he knew he needed those women full-time, particularly Phoebe up in the panhandle with Palo Duro.

And he really concentrated on Palo Duro, and eventually they got it.

First, as a national park, they wanted, but they got it as a state park.

He served several terms on the state park board himself.

Bob Ferguson appointed him.

So he was always interested, and he became more passionate about big parks as they went along.

Then he was tapped by Baylor University, to be its President, 'cause they were broke, and he was a fundraising genius, and he saved Baylor and served in that capacity, until his death.

And he turned out to be wonderful there, he just got a slow start (laughs).

- I wanna zoom out a little bit, and talk about that funding issue, because if there's one through line to this book, it's that funding has always been a problem to our parks, despite the fact that they've always been immensely popular before they were even founded, they were popular.

The idea of parks were popular, and then when they happened, everybody's always loved our parks.

There's always been high approval ratings for our parks, and yet the money issue was always there.

So can you talk about that constitutional amendment, and how that happened and how it solved the problem?

- As I've said to several audiences, even those that were giving me an award, that I don't know why they'd be awarding me, it took 18 years to get the bill passed.

(group laughing) But we did try on several occasions, and in 2007 we nearly had it.

And we did bust the $32 million cap, and I think we got $87 million that year, and 107 the next year.

And then it went back down and then it'd go back up, and then it'd go back down.

One of the big problems, yes, the lack of money was a big problem, but there, because it'd go up and down, you could never do any engineering planning, architectural planning.

You set up something out on the board, and that gets pulled back.

So, one of the things that happened leading up to 2019, is that we had six or seven Chairs of the Parks Commission in a row, that were really good.

And they were really, for the first time, dedicated to parks.

Heretofore, it had always been for the hunting and fishing, hook and bullet crowd they call it.

But Dan Allen Hughes, and Dan Friedkin, and Ralph Duggins, Joseph Fitzsimmons, all wanted to do something about parks.

And as I put it in the book, I kind of fictionalized facts, of how they all came separately during 2018, and I'd get calls, "Maybe we oughta try it.

We don't have enough dues yet, let's go find it."

So we put together a team, and we found out that we had a lot of legislators, turned out we had all but one in the house, and the Senate that didn't vote with us.

So we had 149 house members and 31 senators.

So that was a pretty good advocation to get started with.

But it got better because I'm a big devotee of polling.

I don't care what they say.

And we knew over the years, as you said, that they were wildly popular.

The main drawback, and I really didn't give it credit in this book, is that Texas itself transitioned from a rural agriculture economy and way of life to an urban economy and way of life.

And when that happened, enough of those rural votes swung into the state and the cities wound up with more delegates to the House and the Senate.

And so they were able to get things done, they couldn't get done before.

The polls in the summer of 2019, the worse number we had was 72%.

So we knew nothing had changed.

We wound up with 88% and that was a big win.

And it will serve us well for many years to come.

It's serving us well right now in the legislature.

- I'm so glad that that was able to be accomplished before this centennial year so that we can, you know, the book can kind of end on a high note, because we do love our parks.

We wanna fund our parks.

Then if I can get on my soapbox for a minute, that's why it's so important for us to go vote.

'Cause this was in 2019, as you say, this wasn't a midterm election, it wasn't a presidential election.

But important things happen on those off ballot years, and we need to support things like our parks, 'cause those local elections sometimes have way more effect on your personal life, - Oh.

- than anything you vote for nationally.

And this funding proves it, because we've secured now our local parks forever, and that's an accomplishment.

So I thank you for your help in making that happen.

But we need to switch gears 'cause we don't have, unfortunately, I can talk about this for hours, this is so interesting to me.

(Jennifer laughs) But I wanna talk about Jennifer's book too, which is Parking Lot Burning, which I think is the most fantastic, and interesting name for a book.

(Jennifer laughs) So could you tell us what parking lot burning is?

- Sure, sure.

And it can happen in state parks.

(Christine chuckles) We'll say that, and it often does.

So the name Parking Lot Burning, started as sort of a family running joke, because we would go on these, you know, incredible hikes and we would be way back in the, you know, dense brush country of, you know, of wildlife refuge or something.

And we weren't seeing the birds that we were looking for, but as we got back to the campus of the nature center, or the bird blind or the parking lot, we inevitably found the bird that we were looking for.

And it's not that the birds exist near the parking lot, and I in no way, shape, or form, advocate for more parking lots, but it's just easier (George and Jennifer chuckle) to peer into those habitats from these sort of contrived spaces.

So, you know, we would always have, you know, joke, "Oh we must be getting close to the parking lot, 'cause we're seeing more birds or we're hearing more birds."

And then as I brought it up to other birders, they were like, "Oh, I totally know what you're talking about."

(Jennifer laughs) So it's 90 locations throughout Texas that are easy places to go birding, you know, I'll mention trails, I'll mention the bird blinds, the campus of the nature center, you know, to encourage people to, you know, mill around and stuff.

But I wanted it to be easy for people with all mobility types and then I talk about what birds you're gonna see in what season.

- [Christine] Oops.

(book slipping) - [Christine] Switch 'em out.

- And then, you know, and kind of what to look forward, and where to go, that kind of thing.

It's broken down through regions throughout Texas.

We, as humans, don't see ourselves living in ecoregions.

So I really basic sort of realm the urban areas, although it is important to understand the ecoregions, 'cause that's where the birds have preference.

- It's gonna affect the birds you see, absolutely.

- That's right, that's right.

- So, and its companion comes out in July, which is cemetery birding.

- Yes.

- Again, focusing on easy places to get outdoors, and have rich and meaningful experiences, but maybe you don't have to hike the south rim of Big Bend National Park (Christine laughs) or, you know, go deep into one of the wonderful state parks.

- The subtitle calls it a fun guide and it certainly is fun, but you could also say it's accessible.

It's, and it's easy.

It's not, I don't wanna mistake the audience, and make them think that this is like a beginner's guide.

- That's right.

- But it certainly is friendly for all levels, of maybe you're just the kind of person who goes, "I wonder what that bird is to the most hardcore birder."

This book breaks it down for everyone.

- It does, I tried to really focus on, you know, making it, you know, so that anybody that picked it up, what was interesting, I'll say this too, is it came out in 2020 in the middle of the pandemic, and I wasn't really sure how that was gonna go, but then this miraculous thing happened, which was everybody was home birding and so, you know, they were asking me about the book, and were looking for those local places to go.

And I'll circle this back to dad really quick here, an the funding, because a lot of that funding, not a lot, but a portion of the funding for the state parks also goes towards local park grants.

So those are, you know, your city and county level type parks, which are equally as important as our bigger state parks.

So that was one area that it really helped out too.

And I can't remember the amount that was in it, but it was more than ever in the last biennium, is that correct?

- Roughly before 2019 it was, I think, about 8 million a year.

It's now up to 32 million, I think.

- So that's a big bump.

- But to give you the other side of the coin, when I first got started, it was capped at 32 million.

I'm talking about the - For all.

- state.

- And what we got through this year, it's gonna be about 420 for the buy, and 200 million for the next couple of years.

That's a big increase.

- And to tie it together again, I mean, as you mentioned, 2020 maybe wasn't the best time for a book to come out, but it reminded people how much they love birding, the outdoors, because since then, our park numbers have skyrocketed because people wanna be outside.

- Sky, right, if you If you tried to buy a pair of binoculars in 2020, it was not gonna happen.

(group laughing) - That's right.

- You had to order those and wait.

- The sporting goods sales tax is estimated by the controller, and instead of going like this, when they opened the gates in 2020, they just shot up.

They bought everything in every store.

I mean, you couldn't get to a Walmart, or anything without, a Target, or Academy.

They just wiped 'em off the shelf, and have basically stayed there.

- Trying to get a campsite to go birding, you know, at one of the state parks or any of the parks, you know, even now, is incredibly, incredibly difficult.

So, I feel like in many ways, COVID's shown this sort of white hot spotlight on our need for the outdoors, as part of our health, as part of our well-being.

You know, it's, and then, certainly, birding is, birds are the wildlife that are around us all the time, all day long.

And so, and they're, and in Texas we have, you know, front row seats to the fall and the spring migration, which we are at the very beginning of the spring migration right now.

And it'll last through May as everything passes through to points north, and some of 'em will stay here and nest and stuff, but most of them are heading north, some all the way up to the Arctic Circle.

- Now, unfortunately, we have really run out of time here, so in our final minute, can you maybe both just briefly give us a wrap up of what you want people to take away from your book?

- I want a hundred years from now somebody to take this book and say, "Not only was it important, here's a way to get this legislation passed, here's a way to get a bond election passed, and as a guide to the future to take care of the parks."

I want it to be as relevant a hundred years from now, as it is today.

- And I hope that book is just as thick, because we'll have (George chuckles) so many more new parks that are being created in the next hundred years because we, I would hope, we continue to value and fund and protect.

- We're going to, we've got four more on the drawing board right now.

- Thank you.

- I totally agree with that.

What he said about his book and, you know, Parking Lot Burning, I hope that people, you know, use it as a guide to find local places and just, you know, go outdoors and have fun.

Sometimes we need a reason to go outdoors, and birding, I think, is one of those great ways to give yourself something to do when you're out there.

And you can always pack your binoculars, and in between meetings or whatever, you can be outside and you can be a birding.

- If you can't buy one, borrow it from your neighbor.

(Christine laughs) - That's right, that's right.

Excellent advice.

(group laughing) - Thank you both so much.

This was such a delight.

I wish it could have gone longer, but maybe we can come back and talk about cemetery birding when that book comes out.

- Absolutely.

- I appreciate you being here, thank you very much.

Those books again, were Texas State Parks: The First One Hundred Years, and Parking Lot Birding.

My guests were George and Jennifer Bristol.

Thank you so much for joining us.

I will see you again soon.

(gentle music) (gentle music persists) (gentle music prevails)