<Narrator>: Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina is a cooperative effort among farmers retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture to help consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

The Boyd Foundation supporting outdoor recreational opportunities, the appreciation of wildlife educational programs, and enhancing the quality of life in Columbia, South Carolina and the Midlands at large.

McLeod Farms in Mc Bee, South Carolina family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.

♪[opening music]♪ Amanda: Well, good evening, we're so glad you could join us tonight.

Welcome to: "Making It Grow".

I'm Amanda McNulty.

I'm a Clemson Extension Agent.

and I'm so happy to be joined by my co host Terasa Lott, who's in charge of the Master Gardener Program, and does all kinds of things to help us with the show coming up with questions that I'm glad we have some smart people to help us answer tonight, aren't you?

Terasa: Oh, yes, definitely.

Thank you.

It is so much fun to be a part of the show.

and we have a lot of people that really work behind the scenes both to make the show happen.

Also to answer all of our viewer questions.

and our master gardeners are such a huge resource to our Master Gardener coordinators, like our panelists and our citizens in the state.

Amanda: They are and Paul Thompson up from York County when I didn't get to come this year.

but I think your master gardeners put on one heck of a symposium every year.

Paul>>: Well, the best one in the state of course.

Amanda: I'm not allowed to say that because...

It's a pretty darn good one.

Paul>>: They had, I think that attendance was 200 and was either 260 or 280 last here.

Amanda: That tells you how much people recognize the value and the hard work they put into it.

Paul>>: Right, They've already got all the speakers lined up for next year.

Amanda: Well, this year, I'm gonna be certain that I forgotten what we were doing.

but you know, there's always something there is always.

But yeah, but I'm gonna next year, one of the always some things is going to be to come to your wonderful thing.

and thank you for being with us today.

<My pleasure.> Okay.

and Brad Fowler from down there.

I'm from down there in Horry County.

Ah, I feel like you need to multiply yourself as fast as the people are moving in down there.

Brad: Yes.

It's growing rapidly.

We were getting new people every day.

So yeah, it might be nice to have two or three of me.

Amanda: One of the things is that people who are moving particularly down in that area, often are from not places where the gardening or plant life is communities, the same I think Brad: right?

Yeah, they, they a lot of times tried to grow stuff where they were living previously, and it does not work does not work down next to the coast.

So a lot of educating to do.

Amanda: and I believe you also have master gardeners who try to kind of help you duplicate yourself on occasion.

Brad: Yes, ma'am, we got a great group of master gardeners that they do a ton of different farmers markets and ask a Master Gardener clinics and things.

So I've got a good group.

Amanda: and that really is considering the new people who are coming in without knowledge about trying to garden down here.

Terasa, I feel like they probably down there need to take a box of Kleenex, so when they tell people they can't have lilacs.

Terasa: As a transplant myself, there are some things that I miss.

But there's other opportunities, things that we can grow here that didn't grow perhaps in upstate New York where I'm originally from.

Amanda: Okay, okay.

Well, anyway, we're so glad to have both of you with us today.

really do appreciate it.

and we get to see we have some fun things for you that we're going to show you later on "The Bee Cause" Fasciation which is you can be fascinated about fasciation.

I think that's fair to say.

and swallowtail kites.

A segment on that.

So, look, thanks to look forward to.

Terasa, one thing we always look forward to is the gardens of the week.

Terasa: Yes, it has become one of my favorite parts of the show.

It's like our virtual field trip.

When we get to see what you're doing in your yard or garden.

Or perhaps you've captured a beautiful place in South Carolina.

Today we have a theme so a vegetable theme and we begin with Karen Cutter, who shared a photo of what she described as her husband's perfect garden.

She said there isn't a weed in sight.

That is definitely not describing my garden.

From Margaret Creel, we have two photos to share.

the first is a picture of squash plants in her garden, and then a plate of her bountiful harvest.

From James Bell, a raised bed of tomatoes, and boy, there is nothing like a fresh from the garden tomato, especially in a BLT.

Brenda Walker shared her peppers, they look like they might be jalapeno's.

And last but not least, and I'll do my best with this name Carolyn, Meirjurgen in a raised bed vegetable garden that looks to include some flowering plants possibly trying to attract some pollinators.

So thanks to everyone for sharing your photos.

We had a tremendous response, I think there were more than 150 posts on our Face Book page.

So do go there and see all of the wonderful things people are doing.

Amanda: Well, and I think that's probably because everybody's so excited when their vegetables start producing partially, don't you?

Terasa: Oh, yes, it is exciting.

I like to go out there and get so excited about that first harvest.

Amanda: We like to make cool soup.

Sometimes in the summer, we've been making cucumber soup.

and a friend of mine, Charles Weston, who's a great cook, he puts a little bit of Jalapeno pepper in his cucumber soup.

and I did and my family really liked it.

but what I've done is I've put on gloves because if you remember my honeymoon, I burned my hands and had to sleep with my hand in a bucket of water because I was cutting up hot peppers to make tomato ketchup.

and um, so I wear gloves and that but I cut out most of the all the seeds, and most of that white membrane.

and that tames them down but isn't that funny to think of a little bit of how you put it in cold cucumber soup.

Terasa: So you still get a little bit of heat but not temperature heat.

Amanda: Yeah, it was fun anyway.

Well, thank you so much.

and thank you to, to the people who send those in.

We really, we really do appreciate it.

and I think people can see them all at our Face book page.

Is that right?

Terasa: They sure can.

Yeah.

All right.

and we encourage them to post their photos.

So we can't take photos all the time, but will post call for gardens of the week.

So that's your opportunity.

When you see the call for gardens of the week, all you have to do is post your photos in the comments.

Okay.

Amanda: So, Terasa, also sometimes people have questions and post those there.

So do we have some questions to start off with please?

Terasa: Indeed we do.

We are going to try to help Christopher in Aiken.

Christopher shared some photos and he said I have planted a variety of black tomatoes directly into a bag of composted cow manure.

Some of the plants have stems and leaves with a purple color.

Amanda: Goodness?

Well, Paul, from what I know, it seems that just plain compost is not a good planting medium.

What would you suggest that this person do?

What do you think is?

Paul>>: Well compost is a great soil amendment and helps soil structure it will provide nutrients but none of that happens quickly.

and when we're growing up an annual plant, you know that's going to grow and you know, get large and do a lot of flowering and produce a lot of fruit over one season.

It needs a lot more nutrition for all those processes to happen than what a shrub might need.

So therefore, you know, you're gonna have to supplement it typically with some additional fertilization.

The purpling of leaves and It's very common in tomatoes is typically associated with phosphorus deficiency, that's one can't say for sure that's what it is.

but that that's a if you're thinking nutrient deficiency, I would guess phosphorus over any other because of that purple coloration.

Now, It's not to say that some heirloom variety of tomato, I don't know if he's ever grown that variety, and I'm not really familiar with it, whether or not you know, it might naturally have coloration.

But you know, the plants look somewhat healthy.

I did see a little browsing starting in between the veins, which is also you know, here again, more phosphorus related.

Amanda: Paul, talk about people want to do raise beds or they want to grow.

You know, a lot of people don't want to have a big have a space in the ground, or they want to do containers.

I don't think just straight compost is a good idea.

I mean, compost has a lot of benefits, but I feel like it should wouldn't be, when I was when I'm doing my pots, I usually try to put like no more than, you know 15 20% of the volume in compost because I feel like even though it helps hold, you know, moisture and all that kind of stuff, it could get too heavy and not have enough aeration sometimes.

Paul>>: Well, sometimes it I mean it, when it when it gets wet it stays really wet.

and when it gets dry, it gets really dry.

and usually with a raised bed, especially now when a container and you want to use soil less media or whatever, you can add a little bit of compost a little bit a little bit.

Usually It's not good to as a substitute for potting soil.

If you're growing in, you know, small ceramic containers, whatever.

But in a raised bed, you know, you're talking about a large volume.

and if you were to fill that bed with kind of pure compost or the bagged, you know soils, which none of them if they say topsoil then they're not topsoil, I mean, they're not a mineral soil, they're usually some composted product.

That's going to continue to break down and that's one of the big problems is going to get finer and finer texture.

But It's also going to subside over the course of the growing season.

So if you filled a one foot tall bed with compost, by the end of the growing season is probably going to be down by a third or maybe even a half, just after one growing season and you've got to replace all that.

and so... Amanda: Microorganisms are always eating the compost basically.

Paul>>: Yes if you use a mineral soil, then you're getting the benefits of minerals that are in those soil with it, which are a lot of the minor elements in a mineral soil and you're supplementing that and making that soil better structure, better water and air infiltration by amending it with compost, but you're not going to end up more than 20% by volume of compost.

Amanda: And if you had a raised bed How do you get the 80% mineral soil for that bed?

What's the best source if you can?

Paul>>: Well I mean if your soil on site is not you know too heavy of a clay you know you can use your own soil.

Amanda: whatever is in your yard?

<Right.> Paul>>: You can always go to landscape supply companies that sell you know mulches and gravel and stone and all that kind of thing and they usually also sell soils and they will have typically what they are calling a topsoil.

There's no and that's topsoil is just a well at least here It's just soil it comes off top of the ground somewhere but it doesn't mean It's you know quality stuff but I would I would err on something more on the sandy or side and I would something more clay side.

Amanda: and that way because if you're going to add maybe 20% compost that's going to help.

Paul>>: holding capacity at all like that okay, and you know, but your soil is going to stay there is not going to deteriorate and go away.

Amanda: Okay.

So I'm just getting a bag even though this person really wants to have some great tomatoes, he probably would have done better if he's limited in space and getting in a very large container and mixing it up with so a soil-less mix with maybe a little compost in it.

Paul>>: Well probably so but he still might have to supplement.

Amanda: Yeah.

All right.

Well, thank you so much.

Well Terasa who else is out there with a quandary.

Terasa: Gladys in Green Sea is having trouble with a known pest and this one has gotten me when I've been out trying to do work in the yard and garden.

She says: Amanda: Oh, well if you live real far up north, you probably don't have this problem if you move until you move down here but they are a horrifying thing the first time you encounter them.

Tell me what you suggest that a homeowner do please.

Brad: Yes so fire ants are definitely definitely not a fun experience if you've ever been in a bunch of them but there are some different products out there that work fairly well.

My suggestion would be a bait other products may be contact pesticides where they get on the and or the ant walks through it or something new that'll kill them, but baits they forage for and so they go find these baits and they can traveled quite a ways away from their mounds to go pick up these little baits and bring them back to the mound.

Amanda: Since they're looking for food all the time.

So that's part of their normal daily activity.

Brad: Exactly, exactly, exactly.

So we need to make sure we put them out when they're foraging, the temperatures need to be right.

So when they're foraging, that's when we put our baits out.

but baits can work in a couple different ways.

Some of the baits they take back and they eat it, and it kills them.

Some of the baits are more like growth regulators where they take it back, and it'll prevent the queen from reproducing, that sort of stuff.

So there's a couple of different ways baits work.

but using a bait is going to be a long term solution and one of the best long term solutions.

Now there's a couple things you need to make sure you do when you put out a bait, you need to once again make sure that they're foraging make sure the temperatures are right.

Normally, if we do it in the spring, and in the fall, do it a couple times a year, we can get pretty good coverage.

I know a lot of the companies will say 85 90% reduction in fire ants and doesn't take a whole lot of that bait either.

Normally it'll last a while.

Amanda: Well, and the wonderful thing about a beta I suppose, as opposed to a contact is I think maybe a pound of bait can effectively control the ants maybe in an acre.

So you're not just putting out massive amounts of a toxin that's going to kill any everything that gets on it.

As a matter of fact, I think the bait, I don't think anybody other than fire ants much is affected by it.

Brad: Exactly.

That's the great thing about the base is It's not it doesn't really affect a whole lot of other insects or anything is mainly specific on the fire ants, maybe a couple of other ants, but it Yes, it does not take a lot, pound, pound and a half to Acre depends on the label, whatever product that person is using.

and they can be put in the lawn in the garden, most of the time, you need to rate read and make sure that they're allowed, but a lot of them can be used in the garden and lawns, things like that.

Okay.

Amanda: Now, I do think that you're supposed to try to have the bait be fresh, because I think they're picky.

So you don't want to get it and leave it in the car in the hot sun for like three days.

I mean, Brad: exactly, I think they're kind of like us, if something starts to spoil a little bit, then we're not probably not gonna want to eat it either.

So yes, if you're using a bait, and especially if you don't, if you're not going to use a whole lot, get a small amount, you know, buy a little small shaker can have it because you want to kind of use it, you don't want to let it sit around for too long.

If you do have to store it cool dryer place, make sure It's sealed up really tight.

Because if it starts to go bad, then they won't pick it up.

Amanda: Now what if you're out doing something like and you're in an area, and you were out working, and all of a sudden you realize there's fire ants are there.

and It's a place that you need to finish what you're doing and is there something that you can use for a specific situation when you need to control them immediately.

Brad: So at that situation, you would probably need to go back more towards a contact insecticide where It's going to be fast acting a lot of those act within minutes, and you can kind of get some quick action, you can do that, but then go back to using the baits later as well to get that long term.

Amanda: Um, there's one that has acetate in it, I think that just smells like the end of the world.

and, um, but and, and I think people are afraid of that.

but from what I've heard, and read and heard y'all talk about, actually, even though it has a bad smell, It's not a horrible thing to use.

and you normally just need to use a teeny little bit of it.

and you don't need to use like a quarter of a cup, I think It's just like a teaspoon or a tablespoon, Brad: Right, A lot of that stuff, it does not take a whole lot to control the control as well.

So don't feel like you just got to dump dump dump exactly more is not always better.

These things are formulated to a specific amount and they work in that range.

Amanda: So I think, Paul, what we say is read the label and we kind of mean it.

Paul>>: Right a rate on label is not a suggestion.

It's the law.

Terasa: People worry about safety, especially with pets.

and generally the bait products are going to be safe for people and for pets when used in accordance with the label.

So the non target organisms are usually, you know, not in danger, except for some of the baits will be toxic to fish.

So something to think about.

Amanda: So if you were on when we were little we had a pond where we could go swimming.

and It's so it would say don't apply, I think it was 30 feet within the water's edge.

but since the fire ants are foraging, they would go like if this is the water, and if you went 30 feet back, they're going to come up here and they'll run into it.

And then if they take it back just to their mound, that's not going to bother the fish.

Brad: Exactly.

That's the beautiful thing about baits is it doesn't have to be perfect.

A lot of the chemicals we apply need to be a little more specific and that one doesn't have to be you know... Amanda: okay, that was great advice.

Thank you appreciate it.

Well, "The Bee Cause Project" is a fascinating way but we all want to have young people coming up be aware of the importance of pollinators and they are taking that to heart.

I'm at James M. Brown Elementary School in Walhalla, South Carolina, and I'm speaking with Tammy Enright, and Tammy, you are the co founder and director of the "Bee Cause", which I guess has something to do with honeybees.

Tammy: That's right.

Yes, absolutely.

Thank you for having me today.

and for joining us at James M. Brown.

Um, yes, the Bee Cause is an educational nonprofit.

Our mission is to educate the next generation on the importance of pollinators.

and more importantly, I think inspire them to connect back to the natural world and to hopefully become environmental stewards when they grow up.

Amanda: You were a backyard beekeeper down in Charleston, I believe.

<Yes, ma'am.> and got really excited because you wanted to your children got so excited.

You said that actually talk to you at the supper table, when you got him out learning about bees.

and um, so you wanted to take that experience into schools, and found a person who also was working with bees in a commercial setting.

So tell us about your partner please.

Tammy: That's correct.

Yes, Ted Danner, who's the owner and founder of Savannah Bee Company.

Loves bees has been a beekeeper for decades.

and, you know, had one of these indoor observation hives in his store in Savannah.

and when he and I became friends and started chatting about, you know, our mutual shared love for honeybees.

I said, you know, can I get one of these for the school where my kids are attending?

and he was like, Oh, my gosh, if you can get them to say, Yes, I will pay for it, you know, let's do this.

and so the B cause was sort of hatched as an idea on the back of a napkin.

and, you know, almost 10 years later, we've created this grant based program for schools where It's completely free for them to apply to have this live beehive in their school and start teaching environmental education.

Amanda: and even though y'all both you and he are from this kind of small geographic area, I believe that this now extends across the country and perhaps even more, Tammy: that's right, yes, we have given over 1000 Bee grants to schools across the U.S. and Canada, and even down in Bahamas down in Puerto Rico, in Haiti as well.

So we have some stragglers as well.

and yeah, I mean, It's pretty amazing double digits in all states in the U.S. across all the provinces in Canada.

and we have a wait list every single year of schools that have really, you know, gotten hooked on this program, because it really is one of the most unique, you know, hands on environmental programs out there in the country right now.

Amanda: There's, I think that one of the things I would do is you encourage the children to see that there's cooperation between bees and that crop.

and then we can take that into cooperation in our lives, if we want to be successful, and achieve common goals, and that y'all have ways of helping the children, do some fundraising so that they can continue to support projects in their community, and also kind of learn how to pay things forward.

Tammy: Absolutely, yes, I think that the world would be a better place if we all lived a little bit more like the honey bee where she gives more in the community that she works in than she takes and we hope to, through our programming, provide a Pay It Forward program for our schools, so that when they receive donated hive and are part of our educational program, then they can participate in our pay it forward programming and give honey to others in their community, so that they can, you know, pay it forward and provide other schools with hives just like this one.

Amanda: Isn't that exciting?

and then it really I think, is critical to find a person within the school who is going to be passionate about this?

Tammy: Absolutely.

You know, when we started locally in Charleston and Savannah, it was Ted, and myself, you know, managing each one of these hives, installing each one of these hives, educating the kids about what was happening in the hives.

and then when we decided to take the program nationally, or actually internationally now, we had to partner with every school and ensure that they had support not only with their educators and their principals and their school districts and their community leaders, but also their bee-keeping community.

So everyone who applies for one of our grants now has a partner beekeeper and they're able to make sure that you know they can take care of the hive and also have you know, create a sustainable program moving forward once We give the hive to them and then walk away.

Amanda: For just ease of maintenance.

Many school facilities have cut grass, and a few bushes.

and that's not the happiest of environments, for bees that are coming and going.

And so what can what are some of the things that y'all are doing to try to change that landscape where you have hives?

Tammy: Yes.

So I think once the kids start, have this installed beehive and they start taking care of the bees, they start realizing what the bees need in order to be productive, and have successful life.

So they start asking this question.

So it really is student led.

And our educational components are there to support that.

So we have a program called Be a friend of pollinators where the kids go out and do a campus assessment.

They grade their school campus to see how bee friendly it is or how pollinator friendly it is.

and then we give them suggestions for how they can make their campus more bee friendly, for example, putting out a shallow bowl of water so that the bees have water that's close to the hive, so that they can, you know, manage the temperature of the hive, the water is important for that, or, you know, managing or minimizing the amount of pesticides that they use, making sure that they have proper things growing year round, that you know, a variety of forage for the bees.

So we do give them a list of suggestions.

And then you know, I'm amazed every year when I come back and visit schools like this one, at what, where they've taken that programming, I mean, It's just, It's, It's quite impressive what these kids can do.

Amanda: One of my favorite things to learn has been that, you know, we all grow collard greens in our gardens, and, um, and people say, oh, you know, they'd go into bloom, you know, they're not going to be tasting more, and to learn will shoot those bees love those flowers, so many tiny steps we can take that really bring us into the whole web of the environment.

And I think It's just marvelous that y'all are starting with an early age and perhaps changing the next generation.

Thank you for what you do.

and if people want to learn have more about this, or how to get in touch with you, what's the best way to do this?

Tammy: Yeah, so we're on social media, and we also have a web site, It's thebeecause.org, or #thebeecause, so and then you can always email us.

We're a small team, but mighty, just like the honeybee.

We do a lot, you know, in the local community in South Carolina and beyond.

So if you're if anyone's interested in learning more about how to get a beehive or our newest grant program as a pollinator garden, you know, we want to make sure that schools have the foundation in place to support these these workers so yeah, please email or check us out at The Bee cause dot org.

Amanda: Well, I'm so glad that we got to talk to you today and check out what's happening here.

This wonderful school in Valhalla.

Tammy: Thank you so much, Amanda.

Amanda: You may find that "The Bee Cause" is coming soon to a library or public facility near you.

It really is a wonderful job that they're doing.

Well, of course, I had to go see my friend Ann Nulty last night to get stuff for a hat.

So I took the dog and walked the dog so that was a positive thing to do.

and so I've got and Anne has dahlias.

and often dahlias is a kind of finicky in the south.

But um, Anne's Of course, just do beautifully.

and so I've got a beautiful purple, but I've got some liatris and then I'm Terasa, I've got this wonderful little blueberry, and I think it may be roses blush, but It's one of the ones that's has smaller.

Paul, you know, you're real good on your on... Evergreen, but Well, I guess blueberries not evergreen, but um, foundation plants.

but this sort of blueberry is just a fabulous thing.

and I've know the berries small they say that birds appreciate it.

and It's got a little bit of a rosy tinge to it.

I think It's a pretty little thing.

Terasa: I think vaccinium darrowii I think De Rose blueberry would be the you know, and then roses blush is one of the competitive varieties.

Amanda: Yeah, that's kind of fun.

Yeah.

There are all sorts of new cultivars a lot to keep up with.

Okay, we'll Teresa.

Um, let's see if there's something else that we can help someone with.

Terasa: Sure.

This is a little bit of a mystery.

I guess you could say the dress sent us a picture from Rock Hill and said.

So people always want to know if a bug they find is good or bad.

Amanda: and I admire her.

I'm glad she's at least trying to find out.

Paul, a lot of people just automatically think everything that they encounter that's scuttling along on their plants is bad, but It's really important to find out if something's beneficial or detrimental.

Now, what do you think's going on here?

Paul>>: Well, usually if you have bad bugs in your garden you're also going to have some good bugs in the garden.

and so It's you know, one way to have good bugs as to, you know, when you're growing vegetables is to plant a lot of flowering plants that attract pollinators, a lot of our beneficial insects actually visit flowers as adults, and maybe feed on some pollen, maybe even feed on some nectar.

All right.

but what she is seeing there is lady beetle pupa and lady beetles, of course, they start off as an egg, a cluster of eggs on a leaf from, you know, the female lady beetle will layer small clutch of eggs, and we gotta get one there.

and the little larvae, which look like tiny little typically, you know, kind of charcoal gray and orange, coloration and slightly different depending on the species under Amanda: that maybe.

Paul>>: and so the little larvae is really active feeding on things like aphids, or mealy bugs, or some other soft bodied insects that usually a large number kind Amanda: of like kids.

I mean, It's kind of like a teenager, I've heard they have pretty big appetites.

Paul>>: Very big appetite, right.

and they do a lot of development over a short period of time of only about two weeks as a larvae.

and then they pupate.

and when they pupate, the larvae kind of attaches itself to the leaf with its mouth area and legs, and then starts the transformation.

And you can just kind of see the larvae change over a period of a few days into a visible pupa.

and these things are stuck to the leaf, you're not going to pull them off.

but only after about a week and pupation they're gonna emerge as another adult lady beetle.

Amanda: and even as an adult, they're doing a good job, I believe, Paul>>: but Right, they will also feed on, you know, the bad, the bad bugs.

but I had a big problem with mealy bugs on this swamp sunflower, sorry, drew a blank for a minute.

and I didn't do anything because It's in a pollinator garden, I didn't want to spray something for the mealy bugs, and I was just kind of waiting to see because I do have a lot of beneficial's out in the garden behind the office.

And these lady beetles have already gone through to two generations.

and there are a pupa all over this planet and so there are a lot of adults are hatching out right now we're going to get more eggs laid we're going to really good at and you know that sunflower really hasn't missed a beat.

I mean, It's, It's, It's still gonna be a big plant and without spraying anything the lady beetles had pretty much at least not the problem way down.

So the plant can do it's thing.

Amanda: That's really exciting and as you say, sometimes just trying to give it a little bit of time and see who's out there who's going to come to the rescue and increase their population.

Paul>>: Right.

and if you find these pupas somewhere, you know, you can pluck the leaf off of some, you know, find some elsewhere, okay, and bring it to the garden for your, I've often collected larvae, you know, feeding on some native plant foods or whatever, and just brought them to the garden to get a get a start something that's fine.

If you if you have pest you're gonna get the beneficial's to come in, but you have to be patient to really get a good number built up to really Amanda: not be putting out an insecticide that is Paul>>: you have to use some certain ones insecticidal soaps, usually pretty good for beneficial's less damaging.

Amanda: All right.

Hurrick Brown from the University of South Carolina.

AC Moore Herbarium, is a friend of ours who comes occasionally and he brought a fascinating topic to talk about which is faceciation.

I'm talking with Dr. Herrick Brown who is the curator of the AC Moore Herbarium at the University of South Carolina.

And if you think of the things that y'all have there is mostly being flat and pressed and stored in cabinets, but this is not going to fit in that format.

Dr. Herrick: No.

Yeah, and I like to joke that we're kind of a plant morgue.

Oh, First specimens are laying on their backs with toe tags and stuff.

but yeah, this one is a bulky item that takes its own place in the herbarium and it sort of sits near our door.

and a lot of times we get questions about it Amanda: a lot.

Most of the things in the herbarium are supposed to be like references to see what the plant really looks like in nature.

But I don't think this particular plant generally looks this way.

Dr. Herrick: No, it doesn't, it normally would look just like a regular old tree.

It actually is an introduced species that you'll find along railroads, real large compound leaves, green stems tends to come back every year, something called "Tree of Heaven".

But obviously, this doesn't look like your normal tree, it looks almost like a broom or cinnamon broom or something you'd get around the holidays.

Amanda: It's absolutely fascinating.

but what happened to make it do this?

Dr. Herrick: Well, the short answer is, I don't know.

but we have some guesses that it might have been some sort of trauma to the apical meristem.

So that growing tip at the tip of the stem, which is kind of supercharged with an ability to produce a new branch or new stem or New Leaf, something happens to that and it gets confused, and it just thinks It's got multiple apical meristems.

So this the trunk if you will, continues to grow in parallel, but It's just duplicated.

This is the something we call facetiation.

the root word being facile, which is like a bundle, you can see that on the eagle on the back of our quarters.

and It's obviously not necessarily a healthiest sort of growth form for the plant.

Because, you know, it hasn't evolved to grow in that way.

This little area here looks like either some insect damage or, you know, whatever caused that to happen might have sort of caused it to die off in that area.

Amanda: You know, it looks like nature was trying to make one of the most fascinating sculptures in the world.

and I know this plant, I've seen it a lot of times and just trashed by I mean, if there's a dumpster in a downtown parking lot, sometimes there'll be one of these.

and it could be I think sometimes This occurs because of harbor side damage, among other things, so maybe somebody came along when it was little and was trying to clean up that area.

<Could have been the case.> Well, it is just too cool for school and It's, It's real solid.

I mean, It's gonna last for a long time.

Dr. Herrick: It's pretty durable and like most of the specimens, we hope they last forever.

Amanda: Well, I don't think you can trade this one with another herbarium or send it to him to study they'll have to come and study at one record.

Okay.

Thanks so much for bringing that down.

Dr. Herrick: Absolutely I enjoyed it.

Amanda: Terasa, what's up?

Terasa: Bill in Conway says he is having a problem he sent us a photograph and would like to know the identity of this weed in his centipede lawn?

Amanda: Uh huh.

Well, that's down your way.

Conway, I believe, and what do you think this is?

Brad: So it looks to be oxalis and we actually have a kind of a sample of oxalis.

Here with us today, it can be a tough weed to control a lot of times, you can see it has a pretty good root system on it there and this is a perennial, it is it is gonna be a perennial, but it is quite a prolific seeder at times as well and can and can spread by seed.

So It's a pretty, It's a pretty tough weed to get rid of.

Amanda: So it looks like this is also spreading by that underground rhizome as well.

Brad: Exactly, exactly.

So that's part of the problem with it, we if you do decide to pull it, maybe It's in landscape bands or something like that, you're going to need to get rid of all of that, but it can be pretty tough to get rid of trying to pull it.

That is unfortunate, because we'd like to try to use as many methods as we can to get rid of a weed before we go to the to the chemicals, we'd like to try to do Amanda: like that, if you do enough of that.

It's gonna be very difficult this case, exactly, Brad: It's going to be tough to get all of that root system out.

So a lot of times in this case, we may have to move towards a chemical means of getting rid of it.

Now, if It's in your landscape beds or something like that, just any kind of non selective herbicide, you know, can normally kind of knock back if It's just in the landscape because now a lot of times we're gonna have this in our in our lawn areas.

and so that makes things a little more difficult.

I believe this individual may have had this in Centipede grass, so that makes things a little bit a little bit tricky to it.

centipede is a little bit tricky.

So a lot of the chemicals that we're going to see for this for these types of broadleaf plants are going to have an active ingredient called 2-4-D that's when we're going to see that in a lot of our chemicals.

There'll be a lot of turf grass.

Yes ma'am.

For turf grass, there going to be selective herbicides that are going to kill these broadleaf weeds out of our turf grass.

So the problem with 2-4-D and Centipede, especially is it can be damaging at times, especially if the temperatures are getting above about 85 degrees.

Amanda: Well, heck, that's a lot of the year.

Brad: A lot of the year.

and that goes for a lot of our turf grasses, but Centipede, St. Augustine, Bermuda Zoysia, once that temperature starts to rise, then things start to get a little bit more difficult, not as many options now, there are some other options out there to kill these weeds when the temperatures a little hotter, or if you get a little more sensitive grass.

What I would recommend in situation like this is we've got some great fact sheets on the Home and Garden Information Center web site, we've got a fact sheet specifically about oxalis, about control methods and that sort of stuff.

So a lot of great information there.

We also have a fact sheet that talks about weed control in warm season lawns, and it gives list of chemicals and things like that to kind of control these weeds, talks about what what grasses they are safe to be used on that sort of stuff.

So a lot of good information.

Amanda: So since then, is this a perennial?

Could you wait and do it when the grass would be under less stress?

So you???

Brad: You could do that for sure you and you would want it to be you would want the grass if It's during the growing season, you would not want it to be under stress.

When you're applying a chemical you would want the you would want it to have plenty of moisture and not be under drought stress or anything like that.

Now, it depends on if our growing seasons can be kind of strange, sometimes where we'll have some summer annuals and perennials that will hang on during the winter.

and so if It's hanging on, you can try to control it during different times in the year but it just all depends on how our weather is seeding Amanda: to and I think the seeds kind of scatter exactly.

Brad: I would say something like this, you want to get it young, you want to get it before those seeds starting to come out and It's probably going to take multiple applications of a herbicide to get rid of now the labels on those chemicals will tell you how often you can apply it you know how far how long you need to wait between application environmental conditions, environmental conditions, the temperatures, the moisture load, all that stuff is on the label.

Always read the label and label is the law.

So... Amanda: Okay, because you the one thing you don't want is to get rid of the oxalis but find out the centipede at the same time.

Brad: Exactly.

Exactly.

Amanda: Okay.

swallowtail kites are just a fascinating member of the birds, the Bird Kingdom and I'm Betsy Newman and Lynn Cornfoot, up at SCETV made this wonderful thing for us to watch a little storage segment on it and I think you'll be thrilled just in case you can't get out and see them in person.

Here's a way to look at them right now.

Emily: I was out in this South Carolina managed forest landscape doing surveys and tallying the bird species and I'm standing next to this string side zone in an open area and a swallow tail kite just flies right over my head.

And so I called our International Paper Company partner and I was like whoa, I've got kites.

♪ Narration: Almost 90% of forested land in the southeast is privately owned.

In South Carolina, it's common to see trees being harvested.

And for some people the site is unsettling.

But many landowners manage their forests sustainably, which is critical for wildlife, including the iconic swallowtail kite.

(birds chirping) International Paper in Georgetown, South Carolina uses wood to make numerous products that are useful to people.

Increasingly, the company is working with conservation partners, and sourcing wood from sustainable timber lands.

On a hot July day, a group has gathered in a managed forest near Georgetown to observe swallowtail kites and their relationship to the land.

I know we've seen some birds over here, right?

So there's a nice streamside management zone that'll be protected here.

International Paper is a global Pulp and Paper Company and we make packaging products and Paper products that people use every day.

Jeremy: We have a 2030 goal of 100% of our fiber is going to be sourced from sustainably managed forest.

And the work with the kites and the work with American bird conservancy helps us with that.

It's another important partner is the avian Research and Conservation Institute, whose director Ken Meyer has been studying swallowtail kites for decades.

Ken: Probably the main reason swallowtail kites occur in the southeastern US and not elsewhere, there has always been a large area of the southeast is covered in pine forests.

Sustainable forestry, whether it's small family, or large.

tracts that are destined for commercial applications are very suitable for kites because they have everything from bare ground.

After a clear cut to the early seedling stage when you get certain species of insects and birds and reptiles to stand like this that's older and attracting an entirely different set of small birds and other vertebrates.

Meyer and his colleague, Gina Kent, have been tracking Georgetown swallowtails for more than a year following their long migration from the southeast, to South America and back.

Gina: So when we capture a swallowtail kite, we are putting these transmitters on, we are interested in seeing what breeding birds in these areas do and how far they forage.

But then beyond that, we get to get all the other goodness that comes with tagging a bird which is their migration route, their stopover sites, their roosting areas, which are often communal, and then we'll figure out where they winter in South America, and then watch that whole process back as they come north.

Emily: We call kites our ambassador, we work with a lot of foresters, and professional forest managers.

And kites are just that big sexy bird that shows up and calls and says, Well look at me.

And then that gives us the chance to say, here's how they're using your your property, and they're nesting in a big tree on the edge of this area that was cut last year, they'll still be nest in that tree as the young forest grows up after it's replanted.

They're really benefiting from this landscape.

Jimmy: So just talking about the importance of working forest Narration: for private landowners, the forest serve as a financial investment.

Jimmy: We're managing for folks that want to invest their money into forest land, pensions, endowments, things, investors of that nature, those owners want the lands to be managed and left in better condition.

Then, when they acquired them, we're meeting economic objectives.

But we also understand we have to protect water quality, that's just a fundamental.

We have to provide wildlife habitat and diversity.

It's a public trust in the United States.

But private landowners that own or manage a lot of the habitat are really important partners, and making sure that we're protecting that public trust.

The diversity of the managed forest actually, in some cases exceeds the diversity of the forest that people think of as natural.

Narration: Professional foresters help landowners manage their timber so that the property provides a steady income, as well as habitat for all sorts of wildlife.

Amy: This particular property is about 8400 acres.

So we have a long term management plan for every stand on that 8400 acres.

If you can envision like a patchwork quilt animals, you know, they don't all need one thing.

So some of them need, you know, early successional species and bunch grasses and open areas.

Others need you know, older mature stands with with large trees for nesting.

Have having the age class diversity and the species diversity allows your wildlife to have all different habitats across that property.

Emily: So alto kites are very frequently described as the most beautiful Hawk so they have a four foot wingspan.

They love big insects like dragon flies, they also eat snakes and frogs.

So they'll actually fly along the edge of the forest and pick frogs off the vegetation or a snake of the foliage or you know, off of a branch.

So when you've got swallowtail kites, that means the whole ecosystem is providing the things they need.

Oh, that's a Kite Calling.

Hear that clickly.

Clickly.

That's a kite.

Oh, here we go.

Here's an adult.

Working forest provide clean air, clean water, and jobs from local economies, and corpse actively managed forests benefit a lot of different bird species.

There are so many different... Ken: one of the great benefits of the partnership with American bird Conservancy is a way to demonstrate sustainable forest management.

The neat thing about swallowtail kites is it's a very visible species, and you can physically go out and see them.

And I think it's a bird that really resonates with people.

Ken: This partnership of ABC, timber industry and RCI has been one of the most gratifying things I've ever done.

But feel like all that we've learned about species like swallowtail kites's can be applied, sustainable forests are a really good thing for wildlife.

Emily: We lose land every year to development and people needs.

Keeping a place for nature is critically important.

And I think birds are sort of the best messengers for that.

Ken: When people say, Oh, but you know, timber industry, it looks so destructive.

If growing, timber, and making white paper and making cardboard boxes, making two by fours making plywood.

If that wasn't such a productive industry in the southeast, we wouldn't have these forests, we'd have houses.

We have all kinds of things out here that don't support the wildlife that these forests do.

Amanda: We really do appreciate the wonderful work that Lynn and Betsy do and for sharing their talents with us and with you.

Well Terasa let's see if we can help someone else.

Terasa: We will do our best to help Mary in Tega Cay who seems to be having trouble with a little insect guy so like to play with little roly poly's.

Amanda: Well, Paul, I didn't realize that they were a problem.

but it sounds like they really are for this person.

Talk us through this please.

Paul>>: Well, they're a problem for me too.

Pill bugs usually feed on decaying organic matter.

and, you know, if he were to chop the, you know, like a rotting log, well that or, you know, you throw a head of lettuce out there, they're, they're gonna start feeding on it...

But, you know, if you've got a condition that's just provides a habitat that they like, they're gonna, during the day, they really like, you know, kind of a dark, moist place.

and you know, I've got problems with them.

I always have problems with my seedlings only.

They seem to love to chew on the stems kind of like a cut worm sometimes.

They also love to eat the cauda lidas which are not the true leaves, but they're the two seed halves that come up in our like leaves with most of our plants when the seed germinate.

So anyway, I came up with a little way of just giving them a little protective collar.

They might still climb up and munch on a leaf, which is one thing, but at least trying to protect that, Eat the stem, do the same thing for cut worms, you could also use, you know, people have used toilet paper tubes and that kind of thing, but I just split the straw.

Okay.

Oh, and, you know, go back to the shape and just put it around there and push it down on the ground a little bit.

and it'll help protect them.

The other thing if you're having problems with snails, throw a flat board or a shingle or something like that in the garden.

and more than likely, they're gonna collect underneath that because it'd be moist under there during the daytime, and go out there during the day and flip over the shingle.

and now do something with them.

You got them all in one spot.

So well if you've got a physical way of, you know, smashing them or whatever.

So It's trying to keep it as dry as possible around and prevent, you know, really dark, moist hiding places, if there's maybe just picking up things.

Amanda: With getting close to the end, but you have to take the straw off as the plant gets bigger.

Paul>>: Yeah, I would say wait until he gets about two or three true leaves on it.

the stem is really going to be thick by then.

Don't wait until It's really the straw to get it off there.

Amanda: Well, that's a wonderful thing to do.

Thank you.

I appreciate it.

I'm trying not to use straws, but that's a case where you actually could.

Paul>>: You could use a paper straw.

They just don't want to seem to go together back together.

Amanda: Thank you all for being with us.

This has been a lot of fun.

Terasa, thank you for all the things you do for us, and I hope you'll be with us next week.

Bye-Bye.

♪(closing music)♪ ♪(Captioned by: SCETV)♪ <Narrator>: Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina is a cooperative effort among farmers retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture to help consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

The Boyd Foundation supporting outdoor recreational opportunities, the appreciation of wildlife educational programs, and enhancing the quality of life in Columbia, South Carolina and the Midlands at large.

McLeod Farms in Mc Bee South Carolina family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms