Narration>> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by the South Carolina Department of Agriculture, certified South Carolina grown helps consumers identify, find and buy South Carolina products.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 22 varieties of peaches.

Additional funding provided by International Paper and the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance.

♪ opening music ♪ ♪ Amanda>> Well, good evening.

We're so glad that you can join us tonight for making it grow.

I'm Amanda McNulty, a Clemson Extension agent.

And I'm joined by some wonderful people who are going to help answer questions tonight.

And we'll also show you a little bit about the river alliance and about a new Purple Martin documentary that's coming up Terasa Lott is, Gosh - what a lot of hats, trying to help coordinate the Master Gardener program.

Terasa>> That's right, and our Carolina yards program.

So we're in the middle of our Carolina yards online class, which is offered once a year encouraging or helping people to understand how they can create their desired landscape in a way that protects natural resources.

Amanda>> Yes, yes, and because so many of the things we do end up causing trouble perhaps down stream, and what is it we say?

We all live down stream... Terasa>> We all live downstream.

Amanda>> Yeah, anyway, and Paul Thompson is up in York County where you have you are in charge of the horticulture program, and you have a real interest in raised beds and gardening in different ways, and to help people do that sometimes.

Paul>> Well, yeah.

Probably the most seriously growing vegetables ever since I grew - moved up from the Charleston area where I was originally with Extension but down there the root knot nematodes were so bad I gave up after two years.

Amanda>> Really.

>> Just about all of Mount Pleasant used to be tomato fields.

And they're just well established and you know, about the time your crops got large enough to start flowering and producing something they started going downhill and pull them out of the ground and their roots are about as big as my fingers.

Amanda>> Good Lord.

That's fascinating.

Paul>> But um, you know, when the red clay soils predominant area, raised beds are your more instantaneous way of you know, having some good well drained soil and get a lot of production, Amanda>> Well, we've enjoyed seeing the pictures that you send us sometimes.

Thanks so much.

Rob last is a native of the British Isles.

- but we are so fortunate that you are now a horticulture agent and you are specializing down in some of the lower counties helping commercial growers with certain things Rob>> Yes, that's correct, Amanda.

The counties that I look after are Barnwell, Bamberg, Hampton and Allendale, so right down there in the Lowcountry.

Amanda>> Okay.

And... you've had - Is there a fair amount of vegetable and small fruit production down there?

Rob>> There's a reasonable amount of small fruit production.

We're just - at this point in time we've got the watermelons in and that's a big, a big money spinner for particularly Hampton and Allendale counties, and the cantaloupes coming in too, so.

Yeah, but plenty to keep me busy.

>> Yeah.

And...it's fun when I learned about cantaloupes, I learned that you want a full slip and that means if this were the stem was attached, came off, and it's like a really nice belly button.

That's what you want... that means that it's going to be ripe.

Rob>> that's usually the case and if that slip removes easily, then that watermelon is ripe.

Amanda>> So I look in the stores now that they're you know, sometimes these in the winter, you'll see them and it looks like they had to cut it off with a pair of clippers and again I'm not going to get that cantaloupes.

It's probably not going to be...>> you're not going to get the same flavor... Amanda>> And the ones from South Carolina, of course, the best.

>> Absolutely.

Amanda>> They really are, and John Nelson is a former curator of the AC Moore Herbarium at the University of South Carolina, where you also taught classes, and boy, I was lucky enough to take a class with you.

>> You were one of my best students.

Amanda>> Well, you're just kind to say that.

That was because I brought you food, because if you didn't eat you got grumpy.

>> That's right.

(laughs) Dr. John>> chicken salad sandwich.

Amanda>> Oh, I hope I brought you shrimp salad once or twice.

Dr. John> I liked that chicken salad better?

Amanda>> Okay, well then, I'll make sure that next time you come down here, I'll have one for you.

But anyway, you did slightly better food.

Terasa, do you have some gardens of the week for us this time?

Terasa>> I am happy to report I do have gardens of the week.

So, we'll take our virtual field trip across the state and see what you're doing in your yards, gardens or perhaps have captured in a beautiful location in South Carolina.

We begin with Sherry Enn who sent us a photograph of her backdoor kitchen garden containing several varieties of oregano, parsley, rosemary and garlic chives.

Jan Plante shared with us her queens tears bromeliad, which if you look very closely is flowering in the photograph.

Mike Ely sent a close up of his greens in a raised bed from Harriette Edmonds, we have a beautiful purple iris with a yellow signal that colorful patch on the sepal.

And finally we wrap up with a relatively rare plant the Oconee bells, one of South Carolina's earliest wildflowers sent in from Kim Mitchell.

Thanks to all of you who shared your photographs.

Anytime you see us post our call for gardens of the week.

You're welcome to share your photos on our Facebook page.

Do try to make sure that they are a large resolution so they show up nice for all of our viewers.

Amanda>> Well thank you, Terasa, and you get emails and then people post on Facebook with questions often, and you're kind enough to gather up some of them for us.

So can we start seeing if we can help somebody?

Terasa>> We are going to attempt to help Eric from Columbia.

Eric says I have a shade garden but everything I plant, the deer seem to love.

Do you have any suggestions of plants the deer won't devour?

Amanda>> Well, I've heard that there are deer resistant plants but nothing that's really deer.

You know, completely if they're hungry.

They go eat something.

Terasa>> Yeah, they don't read plant tags.

So they don't know they're not supposed to eat them.

(laughs) Amanda>> But Paul ...do you, have some suggestions of things that are less tempting.

Paul>> Some of them are...natives where they're already in the areas where deer are that - anyway.

One thing I can pretty much guarantee they're not going to eat is hellebores, so and hellebores are a great shade plant they do well in a dry shade.

You know brighten up the wintertime with their flowers starting typically January to you know, through March, I mean, once a flower is done doing its thing, it still stays on the plant looking nice and cheerful for a long time.

Amanda>> They used to kind of nod down but I think aren't there a lot of new ones that... Paul>> Yeah, a lot of hybrid ones where at least they're looking straight out.

They might not look up yet but they look... directly at you.

And just so many beautiful leaf colors and flower colors and some of the flowers are double now and...two tone.

So that's a winner and of course, there's other species of hellebore like the stinking hellebore that they also will not eat but...that's an aggressive spreader it will reseed itself, pretty well.

Some of the natives that I grow that I've never seen the deer bother are green and gold, which is a nice little ground cover with a little yellow flower.

I find that it's the only plant I know of where the flower...is already open.

A lot of them are already beginning to open.

The flower starts off flat against a rosette of leaves, and as the new leaves come on, and the flower stalk actually continues to elongate, so it's held up above always held up above the foliage.

Amanda>> That's pretty cool.

Paul>> I've never seen something that wide open flower and then the flower stalk actually elongates.

Amanda>> It decides to keep growing taller.

Paul>> Yeah, so those flowers will last a good three months.

So, they'll brighten up good nice bright spot in the garden, kind of grows like ajuga and there's a lot of coral bells or Heuchera.

I've never had a lot of luck with a lot of the hybrids, the ones with the more colorful foliage and that kind of thing, but I do have just the native Heuchera americana.

Amanda>> Now did you tell me that last year... seeded down prolifically.

Paul>> Yeah, and I still got some seedlings dig up, saw them at the plant sale but they you know a lot of ...the hybrids I've tried in the past.

They'll give me 2,3,4 years of really good production and then they seem to get kind of these woody stems and they just kind of wither away, but this Heuchera americana, the clump just continues to grow larger and it's just thriving.

And haven't...ever had problems with that.

And the little wild gingers of several different species.

I'm sure Dr. Nelson could tell us the number of Asarums we have in the state but, Amanda>> Now are they the ones that it's fun to kind of look under trying to find out when they're...?

Paul>> The little brown jugs?

Amanda>> Yeah.

Paul>> Yeah, the little flowers that are right next to the ground.

Amanda>> Good reason to get on your hands and knees.

Paul>> They're just a nice evergreen, you know, foliage plant really, that does really nicely and just off the top of my head, there are several that I can think of that would be good choices for the shade.

But, you know, I didn't even get into maybe some shrubbery and things but... Amanda>> We'll do that next time.

How about that?

Paul>> Alright.

Amanda>> Okay, thank you so much.

Okay, what Terasa, whom else can we try to help?

Terasa>> Well, it looks like we're moving from shade to sun because Coleman in Sumter has a question about summer vegetables.

Coleman would like to know when he could plant summer vegetables like squash and cucumbers.

Amanda>> Aha!

Well, Rob, you've got commercial people who certainly want to get their things in as soon as they can.

Because I think if you have the first thing on the market, you get a really good price.

But even a home gardener it's nice to brag about having well I've already got my so and so.

So, what do you think about trying to get things started?

Rob>> Absolutely.

cucumbers are really good They - traditionally, I would say about mid March for the Midlands area of South Carolina.

Now you can try and bring that forward a little bit by planting earlier, which can help with some disease control later on in season.

It can minimize that risk of cucurbit Downy Mildew that's going to come in every year around about May, June time.

Amanda>> How does it?

You mean, that you at least get some.

Rob>> You get the fruits before, >> - before you're gonna lose them?

>> Yeah.

>> Because there's nothing a homeowner can spray on that is there?

Rob>> That's correct, Amanda.

Not effectively anyway.

But that's going to give you some production before that disease comes in.

For squash again, you're looking March 15.

But a lot of times, these planting dates are a window.

So it doesn't matter if a few weeks later, they're still going to grow.

And what I tell my commercial growers is go with the soil temperatures.

So we want some nice warm soil temperatures to get that seed through the ground really quickly, get the plants established and growing rapidly.

So, anytime now will be great for planting squash and cucumbers.

Amanda>> Okay, but people, you're dealing with some counties that are in the Lowcountry, particularly.

So if you're in the Upstate, you may have to adapt?

>> Yes, absolutely.

Potentially go sort of mid April in the upstate, and if you want to bring it forward a little you could maybe start it... Amanda>> If you want to try your cucumbers.

You could, I guess if we got some cold weather and you were getting some of them up, you could cover with a sheet.

Rob>> Absolutely!

>> Don't you think?

>> Yeah, a sheet cover works quite nicely.

I've also heard where you've got the sort of Christmas fairy lights, if you want to wrap those around the plants that can generate a little bit of heat.

Amanda>> That might attract the deer.

Rob>> Yeah...there's always that risk.

There are things that we could do to protect our plants, as well.

Amanda>> Okay.

Well, I certainly do, thank you.

John, you're famous in many, many, many of newspapers and also our Facebook page, have the mystery plants.

And so, I think you have a mystery plant for us today.

Dr. John>> I do.

And it is a very beautiful one.

It's a native species.

Every now and then I'll have a native species.

Sometimes they're from far away.

But this one is a native species.

It grows in South Carolina, and elsewhere in the southeast, and it is a beautiful perennial species.

When I've seen it in nature, it doesn't seem that the deer chewing it up too much.

So maybe it's one of the species that works well and it does like to grow in shade and it comes up from a central base and produces a number of leaves and then a flower stock will start coming up blooming about now or starting to and it'll have an umbel of flowers at the top and on their little pedestals or stalks, when they're mature, they'll all be facing downward, and the petals are what we call, reflexed, and then you can see the stamens in the front.

So it looks, sure enough like a little rocket ship with the smoke from the flames.

as its...and that gives us the common name for the plant.

Paul>> Dames rockets?

Dr. John>> It's what?

Paul>> Dames rockets?

>> No.

That would be in the mustard family.

Amanda>> But rocket ship.

We're supposed to get some kind of idea rocket ship.

Dr. John>> Or something that might be in the night time sky.

But, this is a plant that you can see Amanda>> Terasa's brain is racing (laughs) Do you see the smoke coming out Dr. John>> In places such as Stevens Creek Heritage Preserve, and it's quite abundant there.

And it's just a gorgeous thing, and most people don't have any conception that we have something like that in this state, and it really is quite a treat to see.

Amanda>> So, how well distributed is it?

Dr. John>> It is not common, and I believe it's only in a few counties in the Piedmont.

Amanda>> - in the Piedmont.

>> - in the Piedmont.

Amanda>> Rocket ship and in the night sky?

Yeah, Dr. John>> Yeah, and while you're thinking about this common name, I'll say that, Rob here from the British Isles may know other species of this, which is actually in the genus Primula, and this is a native one that we've got.

Rob>> Okay, It's certainly got that sort of Primula Primrose to it.

Dr. John>> Yeah.

>> We probably know them as cowslips, as much as anything.

Dr. John>> Cowslips.

Then there's Hawks lips Terasa>> I may have found it, but I cheated because used electronic resources.

Amanda>> Well, were stomped.

So cheat away.

Terasa>> Is it?

Doe-deca-theon something like that?

Dr. John>> Dodecatheon is the old name, but they, a botanist... >>Is it shooting star, shooting... Dr. John>> shooting star.

Amanda>> Oh, Shooting star.

Terasa>> I did cheat, so.

Dr. John>> That's okay.

Amanda>> So what's the new name?

Dr. John>> Primula meadii Amanda>> Well, Primula is easier to say than Dodecathe-drawn?

Dr. John>> Yeah, but Dodecatheon is a little more dramatic.

Amanda>> It is.

Dodecatheon, drama.

Dr. John>> Dodecatheon.

Dr. John>> But Primula meadii.

Meadii, a name for a botanist named Mead.

Amanda>> Oh, okay.

Okay.

That is too cool.

And so...it's in kind of open woods?

Dr. John>> ...not so much.

It's another one of these ephemerals in the spring before the canopy is really gone to town above.

So.

Amanda>> Oh, okay.

Dr. John>> Once the canopy is thick above and you don't see it in bloom anymore.

Amanda>> but it looks like it has the potential to spread pretty widely.

Dr. John>> It gets pretty large populations.

Amanda>> It's just beautiful.

Thank you so much.

Okay.

Primula's easier than...- say it again.

Dr. John>> Dodecatheon.

(laughs) Amanda>> Usually I don't like it when they change the names, but... Paul>> I think Rob ought to say that one.

(laughs) Rob>> Dodecatheon Amanda>> That was...take advantage of that beautiful accent while we've we got it.

Okay.

There's a wonderful place that you and I went.

Boyd Island.

Dr. John>> Oh really?

I remember that.

Amanda>> It was so generously.

provided by the Susan Boyd and Darnell Boyd Foundation has been so generous, and while we were there, On one of our trips, we talked with Mike Dawson of the River Alliance, which tries to make the rivers accessible to people.

It's a pretty, pretty wonderful idea, and they are doing a good job.

♪ <Amanda> I'm at Boyd Island in the middle of Three Rivers.

...I'm speaking with Mike Dawson of the River Alliance.

Mike, what's the River Alliance all about?

Mike>> Well, our mission is to get people to the river.

So we were formed up as a nonprofit in 1994.

And the local partners are Lexington and Richland County, Cayce, Columbia, and West Columbia, state of South Carolina, a few others.

And what we took on was public access on the Broad, Saluda and the Congaree Rivers, and most of the people who recognize the public access now as the Three Rivers Greenway.

We've done every foot of it, and to include Boyd Island.

<Amanda> Yeah, and one of the wonderful things is that it's accessible to people, to everybody.

I mean, you don't have to be somebody who could run the Boston Marathon or has fancy shoes or anything.

I think everything is made so that it's very easy for people to get there.

Mike>> Oh, that's absolutely true.

And you know, before, I mean, you would have to swim or walk into water to get to Boyd Island, but the three miles we just opened around the Riverbanks Zoo, literally was a jungle environment out there.

So, that three miles,... it's baby carriages, wheelchairs, roller blades, dog friendly, all that good stuff.

People are swarming to it.

Amanda>>...I know that during these last few years, when people wanted to be outside, you probably saw a huge increase in guests.

Mike>> Well, we did.

And, you know, people have been out here since, I mean, literally, they follow the construction crews.

Okay, so when there's concrete laid, here they come with a bicycle or something that rolls, or just walking, and sitting on rocks and looking at the river and fishing.

<Amanda> One of the things is it's used so much that I think people feel safe, even though it's a long trail.

A lof ot - more people you have coming and using it, the more everybody's looking out for each other.

Mike>> Well, I mean, each government has its own system of security.

Some use uniformed police officers or bicycles or, you know, the four wheelers.

The city of Columbia here has park rangers, and we saw a couple today when we came in.

But really, the real security is people out here wandering around with cell phones.

It's lighted, each light pole is numbered.

So if you fall off your bike and have a problem, you can call 911.

...then they'll usually say, you know, crawl the light pole, and tell us what number it is, then somebody will show up and help you out.

<Amanda> Yeah, and you've got a big plan in the works for this island.

Mike>> Well, we've got a few more things to add, there's going to be a pavilion here, there's going to be public art here, you know, a few more for add-ons to embellish it, if you will.

Amanda>> Even, though it's lovely as it is.

Mike>> It is.

So, off to your right, if you look through those trees, there is the Columbia Canal.

And so what we're going to do is we're going to connect Boyd Island to the Columbia Canal.

and we're going to build a bridge across Broad River, and we're working on the funding for that right now.

You see, usually, a lot of what we do is present solutions to access a public policy, And then we say, okay, let's figure out how we get the money to do that, and then we'll do the design engineering and permitting and then we'll go build it and we'll turn it back over to the government.

So we're working on the permitting of that right now, even as we speak, and it's gonna be gorgeous, and you can walk from, you know, you could walk from downtown Columbia, Riverbanks Zoo, or all the way up to I-26, or down to Cayce and down there, I-77 and 12th Street.

<Amanda> Mike, one thing that I would imagine is a really important spin off is the more you get people out into the wilds, and this is pretty much as it would be, the more they start to appreciate nature.

Mike>> But they see the wonder of God's creation and it becomes internalized.

You think, well, somebody left a pop bottle floating down the river, I'm going to go get that.

<Amanda> Yeah.

Mike>> Before we had the Greenway, there's a certain number of folks who got active with it.

After we had the Greenway, there were, auditorium loads of folks who got active, on that, because when your kids or your dog are swimming out there and you think, wait a minute, you know, I don't like that.

I'm going to do something about it.

Amanda>>...So, it all... the spin offs just continue in positive ways.

Mike>> Well, when we started this thing, I mean, we had, I think, five, what I call, boat landings on the Three Rivers, okay?

So 50 miles of river, and 90 miles of river we had five boat landings, and most of them had an asphalt parking lot, 55 gallon oil drum full of fish parts.

<Amanda> Yeah.

Mike>> ...people didn't want to go down there.

They thought it wasn't safe and wasn't secure, and now we've got folks who love this Greenway.

And tell us that all the time.

Do more.

Get my neighborhood connected, you know, build some more stuff, so I'm proud of that.

<Amanda> Yeah, and you should be.

Well, Mike, thanks for getting us out here today and showing us such a good time, and if people want to find out how to get here or to any of your entrances, what's the best way to do that?

Mike>> Sure, go to riveralliance.org website and you can get the locations of all the parking lots, and just dial it in, and you'll feel good about it.

And trust me, if you get out here you'll come back.

<Amanda> Yeah.

Go out and enjoy nature.

Mike>> Absolutely.

>> Thank you so much!

Mike>> My pleasure!

♪ >> In the Midlands, we are so fortunate to have all these wonderful waterways and the River Alliance makes it easy for people to get to them and safely be very close to them.

we've also done two stories on Boyd Island, One with Susan Boyd, herself who is a foundation that's in her name, and her husband and her husband's was it who made all of that possible, and we did.

Also one with you, John.

And it's a really cool place.

Dr. John>> It was a real pleasure to be there.

Amanda>> It was.

So if you'd like to see those previous segments, you can go to MIG's M-I-G's website, or you can go to SCETV's YouTube website and find them there.

So I needed a hat.

And I didn't have much in the yard to work with, but I had some brussel sprouts in the refrigerator.

And I had a star fruit.

So this is what we have.

And also, Tim Lee, who's with PRT and a wonderful naturalist came down and filmed some segments with us on lichens and mosses.

And so I had this one leftover, and I believe it's called.

Dr. John>> Usnea >> Usnea.

I always want to say use-nea, because it's so useful, but it's ooze.

>> It's, usnea, >> but it's not really oozy.

But um, but the fun thing is that there's a reference to it in the scientific name for Spanish moss Dr. John>> or Spanish moss Dr. John>> which is named Tillandsia usneoides and that just means the Tillandsia that looks like usnea.

(laughs) Amanda>> Anyway, and so here is, well, a big plate full of bread.

What a treat, are you are you part of the Great British baking experience?

Rob>> I've seen it Amanda, but I've not actually taken part, although I have been told I should do.

Amanda>> I think you'd do much better than anything they do.

Tell me what we've got.

Rob>> We've got some basic white bread.

Yeah, we've got an olive oil with an unusual herb in it, Amanda>> What is that?

Rob>> It's lavender.

So what I'm going to do is pass this plate down with the bread and the olive oils.

That's a savory one, and on the other side in front of left in front of me now is a lavender cake.

So that I've replaced the butter that's in there with the lavender flavored oil and some fresh, fresh chopped up lavender.

Which sounds really unusual, but I think you'll enjoy it.

Amanda>> And lavender's always been one of those things.

Sometimes people would say Oh, I just have to have lavender in my yard and, but I didn't think it really formed well down here.

Rob>> Generally speaking, the English lavenders won't perform very well down here.

They're too susceptible to root rot, and really don't get on well with the heat and the humidity that we have.

I'm working with a grower in Barnwell County in South Carolina, growing a spanish french lavender cross.

Amanda>> - because I'm sure we have heat and humidity in Barnwell, South Carolina.

>> Absolutely.

Rob>> The Spanish and French cross lavender seems to be performing very, very effectively, and they're actually using that lavender for creating essential oils and potpourris and are marketing it and selling it in forms of the olive oil.

Dr. John>> Whoa.

Amanda>> And how did they How did they decide where they already in Barnwell and looking for a way to expand their business or how did it come about?

Rob>> They were looking to come into South Carolina.

They bought the land and then worked from there with extension and to actually set up the facility and get going.

Amanda>> Wow!

Oops I guess well this is... Oh my goodness.

It's delicious.

Rob>> It's really, really good.

I will be honest, I did fry some salmon in it, last night.

Come on.

And that was really tasty.

Amanda>> Um, well you'll have to let us go down with you and visit them I hope when the lavender is in bloom Rob>> Absolutely.

Isn't it wonderful for pollinators?

Rob>> It's fantastic for pollinators, Amanda from bees from the from the bees through to the butterflies as well Dr. John>> no double dipping.

Rob>> Yes in June, that looks, the smell and the fragrance that's coming off that lavender and the insects buzzing around is quite... Amanda>> How are the operators adjusting to the heat and humidity.

Rob>> They're doing really well.

They really are doing very well.

(laughs) Amanda>> ...then those... oh and then the cake's coming too, and then John once you finish chewing, (laughs) I think you have a show and tell for us as well.

Dr. John>> Mm hmm.

I better get this out of the way Amanda>> Send it over here so I can try some.

Thank you.

Dr. John>> My show and tell, Amanda>> Oops here are your eyeglasses.

Don't want to lose them.

Dr. John>> which will now be revealed...to the crew is also edible.

Are you ready?

Behold Paul>> Oh my goodness.

An outie, navel orange.

Dr. John>> That's definitely an outie.

Amanda>> Maybe it's not good for us?

Dr. John>> Who knows?

It has this real clever, annoying little tag thingy on it.

This is what we call.

I'll just tell you right away.

It's called a sumo Citrus.

Sumo, like the... Amanda>> It sounds Asian.

Dr. John>> Oh, yeah, this is originated in Japan.

This doesn't occur in nature, but it was developed, and I'm not sure if what kind of hybrid it is, but it is.

I think it's got a fairly complex genealogy.

And the thing about the sumo citrus?

Well, one of the things is it's got this what they call a top knot right there, which looks like an outie, and you know what we're gonna do with it.

We're going to taste it.

Wow.

Because I understand that these things are way, Wonderful.

And what we're going to do... Amanda>> It's not going to be real bitter, we don't think.

Dr John>> It should not be.

I understand also that the, it's easy to peel these things.

So far, so good.

Look at that.

It's a lot of peel on this thing, but then there's, these are fairly large citrus fruits, and it's coming like coming off Amanda>> How long do you think it's been in production.

Dr. John>> I think that these things had been, were developed in the 70s.

Amanda>> So it's not a brand new thing.

Dr. John>> Not totally brand new.

What I'll do is pass this down for you all to - give Amanda a little bit and see what and see what we think.

Amanda>> Well, it doesn't have - I don't see any seeds.

Dr. John>> You're not supposed to have any seeds.

So there's another plus >> Yeah.

Amanda>> and the membrane between the slices is relatively thin Dr. John>> Yeah, so let's... Amanda>> That's delicious.

Hmm.

Not as acidic as a lot of oranges and citrus, I would think What do you think, Paul?

Paul>> I agree.

Dr. John>>Sort of, a little bit tangeriny, maybe.

Amanda>> but not overly sweet.

And as tangerines can become sweet, oh my goodness.

Did you get this at a place, near Decker Boulevard or someplace where they have a lot of unusual...things or did it just come in, - was it at the store?

Dr. John>> It was at a store.

It wasn't any kind of specialty shop.

Amanda>> Okay, so these are in certain stores.

You can find them?

Dr. John>> Yeah, when they're available.

but it is definitely a thick skinned or peeled, or thick peeled citrus, But it comes off like a breeze and I bet if you wanted to get a couple of these and make juice.

It'd be great.

Juice them.

Now the thing about these is they are wonderful and sweet and full of good things just like most citrus is They're also a little bit pricey.

Amanda>> I was going to think so.

Okay, this has been so much fun having all these taste treats, I think, Paul the gauntlet is down.

Dr. John>> You didn't have to eat lunch >> Zach Steinhauser is a member of the family at Wingard's nursery and he got very interested in the purple martins that he would see when he was on the lake at Lake Murray.

And lo and behold, there's a documentary film that he's put together.

>> I'm speaking today with Zach Steinhauser, whose parents are no family.

But when good nursery, I'm glad to have the younger generation with me.

Zach>>: Thanks for having me on.

I'm excited to be here.

Amanda>> but I first met you or heard about you years ago, you getting ready to study wildlife biology, that you did.

And some of that was driven by hanging out on the lake.

Zach>> Yeah.

So I grew up in the Lexington area, always out on Lake Murray.

Loved just going out on the lake, and we could go fishing catch any kinds of fish, catfish bass, gar.

Go see bald eagles flying around and then every summer we'd always go out to go see the purple martins hanging out on Bomb Island.

Amanda>> ...tell people a little bit about that if they're not familiar with that experience.

Zach>> So, Bomb Island is this tiny little island out in the middle of the lake and it acts as a purple martin roost in the summer.

So, for the month of July and August, you get thousands upon thousands of purple martins all just kind of flock and descend together onto this tiny little island Amanda>> ... you said it could be almost like a half a million or so?

Zach>> Yeah, when scientists first got to the island, started doing their studies, they were getting half a million bird estimates and some were saying even three quarters of a million individuals at the island Amanda>> Now, this is after they've had their babies and before they make their trip back to their home in South America.

Zach>> Yeah, correct.

So Bomb Island is a kind of like the end of summer barbecue, if you will.

It's everybody comes together.

All the purple martins in the area have already nested, raised their chicks.

They're already at this island.

They're having one last party for the end of the summer before they head back to South America.

Amanda>> You said you were somewhere hearing a talk about this, and somebody said something that you just found kind of hard to believe and then you started looking into it.

Zach>> Yes.

So I was at a trade show in Missouri, working for Wingards at the time, and I was listening to the host talk and he dropped a note where he said that all purple martins, born east of the Rockies are all born in birdhouses, and that just stuck out to me.

I was like, wow, what is that?

So luckily, there was a representative from the Purple Martin Conservation Association at this event, as well.

So I walked up to him, I told him who I was where I lived, he was aware of the Lake Murray Roost, as well, and so I just asked him if it was actually true that all purple martins are born in birdhouses, and he said, that is correct.

Every purple Martin born east of the Rocky Mountains, which is like 90% of the species, they are all born in birdhouses.

So, every bird I grew up going to see on Lake Murray at the Bomb Island Roost they all came from someone's backyard.

Amanda>> And so a lot of us familiar with - I live in St. Matthews.

...so we were the purple martin capital for a while.

And they're these poles up in the air that have several gourd like structures hanging from them.

Is that what this man was talking about?

Zach>> Yeah, so if you're ever driving out in the country, and you just see like a telephone pole, or some just kind of cables strung up with a bunch of gourds hanging from them, odds are you have that's what those are for, they're for purple martins other birds will nest in those as well, but that's kind of the primary purpose for what those are Amanda>> with habitat destruction.

And all the changes we've seen with agriculture and all.

These former cavity nesters got kind of displaced, and so this now has become...-they're very communal.

They're not afraid of people.

And this is a very natural and convenient way for them to live.

Zach>> Yeah.

So over the past 250 years or so just humans have managed to just alter the landscape in such a way that we've altered and hardwired these birds to exclusively recognize man-made birdhouses as their nesting habitat.

Amanda>> Well, you decided that in addition to being a wildlife biologist, you might become a filmmaker, and I think that this is self taught yourself and you've been traveling around and tell us where you went and what you've done, and what we can possibly see as the result of all your work.

Zach>> So when I first found out about that whole birdhouse conundrum that purple martins face, the question that really stuck out to me that I was asking myself is what happens when people quit putting birdhouses out?

Do the birds re-wild?

Do they go extinct?

Do we lose them forever?

Who knows?

So I spent the past five years running all around the United States talking to various experts among purple martins and birds in general, to just kind of understand the issues that these purple mountains are facing, like what can humans do, in respects to keeping them around.

And not only that, just before the pandemic hit -it feels not so long ago, but it's been two years now, just before the pandemic hit, I was down in Brazil, joining up with a research team who were studying a newly discovered migratory roost of purple martins on the Amazon River.

So that was really exciting to see, and it's, this whole journey has just been put together into about an hour long film, and it's really just a rallying cry to further species and just give people something to go off of, in terms of if they want to do something for the environment.

This is a very easy thing to do.

Amanda>> Well, this film is going to air when and where and what's the name of it.

Zach>> So the film's title is Purple Haze a conservation film, and it is going to premiere on April 23 at the Ice House Amphitheater in Lexington, South Carolina, and we are going to since it's the day after Earth Day, we are having a bunch of other organizations present as well to do outreach and engage the public.

We'll have Audubon South Carolina there will have the purple Martin Conservation Association present.

Congaree River Keeper will be there, as well and the South Carolina Bluebird Society, just to name a few, and the gates will open at 7, and you get to hang out and mingle a little bit, learn something new from these organizations, as well, and then we'll premiere the film at 8, so... Amanda>> That's very exciting, and especially since it's not very hard to add these to your yard, and I thought you had to have maybe a cleared acre or so.

But how much space do you need?

Zach>> You really only need about 40 feet from trees and buildings.

And if you hear that you think maybe your property fits the bill, definitely go for it.

If you don't think your property fits the bill, you can easily work with your local parks, or if you work at a place of business that has a lot of cleared land.

You can work with your bosses there, you can work with your town halls, your churches, there's a lot of places that you can put these things Amanda>> That makes perfect sense.

If people want to learn more about this, you're a naturalist and working in that capacity at your family's business.

Can they come and talk to you and learn about the things that the supplies and things that are available?

Zach>> Yeah, absolutely.

You can come see me at Wingard's Market in Lexington, you can learn more information about purple martins in South Carolina, at wingardsmarket.com.

If you want to learn more about the movie, you can go to purple haze, ACFmovie.com.

Amanda>> Well, it's been a real treat to have you here today, and this is something that I could easily do in my backyard.

And I'm going to come and talk to you and learn how to do it.

Zach>> Come on up.

I'd love to talk to you about it.

Amanda>> I think it will be a fascinating documentary, and I hope that I'll be able to see it and so will some of you.

Terasa, I bet you've got another question for us.

Terasa>> Yes, this one is a mystery that Tiffany in Tega Cay would like us to solve.

She sent us a photo and said I found this on my plum tree.

What is it?

Amanda>> Oh, well Paul, what do you think this is?

Paul>> That looks to be a Carolina mantid egg case.

You mean like the praying mantis, insect?

Paul>> It's the Carolina mantid, which is our native praying mantis is a lot more rarely seen than a cousin from China, the Chinese mantis and it's egg case is a lot larger and foamier looking Amanda>> but similar.

You'd probably recognize it as such Paul>> Um, actually, I mean, they look totally different.

You know, the Carolina egg cases.

Just a lot flatter.

It's got that little lighter colored ridge on the upper side.

And... Amanda>> how many eggs do you think are in it?

Paul>> Oh, there could be hundreds of babies in one egg sack.

Amanda>> Goodness.

I think I've heard of people sometimes bringing Christmas trees inside.

And it warms up.

Paul>> You've probably heard that from me, because I tell that story... (laughs) Amanda>> Well, I bet I did.

But isn't that something has happened sometimes, and all of a sudden, they have a real Christmas surprise.

Paul>> Probably the first Christmas tree my wife and I had at the first house we ever owned in Anderson, South Carolina.

And I put the tree in the stand, brought it in and was putting the lights on it.

And I made a comment to my wife that it had a praying mantis egg case.

Oh, and she said, You better get that out of the house.

I said don't worry, they don't hatch until the Spring, and the next day, there were baby preying mantises climbing all over the tree.

(all laugh) Amanda>> Because, you... Paul>> My credibility has been pretty much shot, ever since then.

(all laugh) Terasa>> It was spring in your house.

Amanda>> I mean, so you've got this really beneficial insect in your house.

And you can't put it outside because it's too cold.

Did you just... Paul>> They all perished.

Nothing to eat... Amanda>> Poor little darlings >> But I was laying on my back picking them out with tweezers and putting them in a jar but you know, had nothing to feed them.

I guess they could've eaten each other.

Amanda>> But... they are a benefit... considered very beneficial insects.

Paul>> Well, I mean, you know, they're so generalist in their feeding, I mean, they'll feed on a honeybee or basically anything that's smaller than they are, which is almost every other insect.

But, you know, I mean, they can be a benefit, but we have plenty of them around.

There's really no reason to go order any off the internet or anything like that.

We got to Amanda>> Well then, also it's interesting to get people interested in the insect world, and they certainly serve that purpose.

Don't they?

Paul>> Yeah, there's certainly an interesting insect to look at, because they know you're there and they look right back at you and rotate their head around Amanda>> and say, what are you going to do about it?

Paul>> Yeah.

(Amanda laughs) Terasa>> And rather than like actively seeking out prey, I think they're more of like watch and wait, right?

Paul>> Pretty much.

They might stalk something just kind of slowly creep up but they're not you know just running around.

They do kind of wait for things and of course a lot of that is waiting on plants that are in flower, insects coming to visit flowers.

Amanda>> Okay.

Well Rob, I think you've got a show and tell for us.

Rob>> Absolutely.

Amanda, Amanda>> Did you get to take a trip?

Rob>> I certainly did.

I was lucky enough to be able to go back to the UK last August to go and see family.

Amanda>> To see family, gosh!

Rob>> Absolutely.

Very I can feel very fortunate in that I also spent time at the Royal Horticultural Society Gardens outside of Harrogate, where they've got some beautiful demonstrations of espalier.

Now granted, these examples of Espalier are apple trees, and I know we've got a few sites in South Carolina that are suitable, but espalier is quite a really good process for training trees into a smaller area.

So in some of the photographs that I took, you will see them used as boundaries for cottage gardens, for example, or actually, espalier right over the top of a walkway and through arbor.

So, it's so you can actually walk through and underneath the apple trees.

Amanda>> And so if you don't have enough room for a big, full grown apple tree, this is a way to minimize it, and yet still be able to have some of this fruit that you can enjoy.

Rob>> Absolutely, and certainly espalier ...works with apples, I've seen it done with plums and pears.

So there's a variety of different trees that you can go for.

And again, you know, if you look at some of the more modern varieties, the dwarf and semi dwarf varieties, you may even be able to try them in a large container pot on a patio for very small areas.

Amanda>> Paul, I've seen people often use camellias and for espalier.

Paul>> There's a lot of shrubs that are very suitable for espalier, and I'll see more often sasanqua camellias than I do the Japonicas, but...you know, Bartlett...lab you know they've got a display of several things and several things are definitely evidence of you know, that espalier is going to work you to death like they've got a loropetalem espalier.

Amanda>> Oh my Lord.

(Amanda laughs) And, you know, traditionally one of the very common plants that was always espaliered was pyracantha you know, but that's a very thorny kind of... Amanda> Yeah, yeah, >> kind of vicious plant, because when you get stuck with one of those thorns, it hurts for a week or two.

Amanda>> Yeah, I think I'll stick with the apple or the sasanqua How about that?

Yeah.

Really have to get - go with you up to Bartlett again.

They do such fascinating work up there and I know you have a good relations with them and talk to him and see if we can't come up... Paul>> Yeah, it's an interesting place, especially this time of the year to see all the spring flowering trees.

They've got a lot of different species.

Dr. John>> Maybe we should all go to the Royal Horticultural Society.

Paul>> There we go.

(all laugh) Amanda>> Is there a family kind of airline ticket that you get?

(laughing continues) Well John, I think you have a show and tell, as well.

Dr. John>> I do and you know, the beautiful espaliered plants are good news.

This one is bad news.

And of course, I've dug this out of the ground early this morning when I took Hannah out for her little walk.

Amanda>> morning constitutional.

>> That's right and these this is forming something of a lawn and I know what this stuff is.

But I'm going to slide this over dirt and all to my two learning colleagues to talk about a little bit Rob>> I think Paul that's long buoyed.

Paul>> I believe you're right there, Rob.

Yeah, I've been getting a lot of calls on this weed.

It's a...winter annual.

So, as soon as the heat arrives, Amanda>> Rob, move your glass back just a little bit.

As soon as the heat arrives, it's going to go away.

But what it's going to leave behind are these sand spur like burrs.

Amanda>> They're not quite as bad as sand spurs.

Paul>> Not quite as big but they certainly hurt just as much when they're sticking your foot and that's when people really know they have it.

Is later, early summer when the plants kind of dried out and died and those burrs get even Amanda>> Right when you want to go barefooted Yeah.

So and their problem with, you know, pets getting them stuck in between their feet and that kind of thing.

So it's a pretty vicious little weed.

It's a very, very low growing weed.

Pretty much, you know, maybe an inch tall, it just doesn't grow very tall.

Amanda>> So those are the seeds - so they're going to scan, I mean, that would be the Paul>> Right.

It disperses by latching rides on things, you know go in other areas.

So to manage this weed, you really want to go after it in the fall of the year and use pre-emergent herbicides and the only one I know of that's effective and it's labeled for all the lawns is gallery.

>> Okay.

>> Now, Atrazine has some labels for it, but Atrazine is >> I don't like Paul>> It's not a...herbicide that you want to just your go to type herbicide.

It's very water soluble and especially down towards the coast where you got sandy soils and high water tables, I would not use it, but the Gallery Amanda>> if you follow the directions is a relatively safe one to use.

Paul>> Right.

Amanda>> Now, do you... is that applied as a.. is it dry?

Or do you Paul>> there is a liquid formulation and then a different manufacturer that manufactures granular formulation.

Amanda>> And if you use the granule one, from what y'all have told me in the past, I think they need to be watered in to a certain extent Paul>> Both of them need some movement down into the soil usually, Amanda>> Okay, you want to... to get it down into where the seeds.

Paul>> Right.

It's got to bind with the soil particles and basically pre-emergent herbicides create this chemical layer in the soil tightly bound to the soil, and as a weed seed germinates, it actually absorbs the chemical, either through its root or through its new shoot, and you never see it emerge.

That's why they call it pre-emergent.

Amanda>> Okay, wonderful.

Okay.

Terasa, do you have something else.

We have just a few minutes left.

Terasa>> Well, Debbie in Pawleys Island sent us a photograph of some brownish goo on her red, eastern red cedar, and I'm pretty sure that it would be one of the rusts and there's a number of rust species, but maybe someone can talk about management if that's necessary.

Amanda>> Okay.

Well, Paul, I'm going to throw this one to you and I think we have about two and a half minutes.

Paul>> Okay.

Well, being that Rob works with a lot of the fruit trees, being the alternative host works with, I'll let him talk about it.

Amanda>> And I'm sorry, I didn't even think about that.

I apologize.

Rob>> So yes, cedar apple rust is hosted.

at this point in the year, you're going to see that ooze out of cedar trees.

...Yeah, you get that sort of almost syrupy ooze.

That's telling you that the fungus is active.

So it can be a really good indicator as to when to apply fungicides into other crops like apples or crab apples, that can form the summer host for the disease.

Amanda>> So, this jelly like mass is going to make spores or something?

Rob>> Once those dry, that's indicating that the spores of the fungus have been released, potentially infecting crab apples, hawthorns, depending on the species of rust that's actually present.

That gives us an opportunity to apply if we're going to do fungicides into those other susceptible hosts to kind of almost break the lifecycle of Eastern Red - Cedar apple rust.

Cedar Hawthorn Rust.

Amanda>> So what does it do?

Like if you had an apple orchard or something?

What would it do?

Rob>> It can really depend on the species.

Some will indicate foliar disease rust or those that can actually affect the fruit?

And certainly some what you've what you can find in certain species is that the fruit almost look like a disco ball, where you've got spores and fungal growth growing all the way around spores.

Amanda>> I don't think that would be, Terasa>> I have a great photo on service vary and it looks like an alien spaceship or something like that.

Rob>> Even a virus particles... Terasa>> The virus particle.

Exactly Amanda>> Yeah, yeah.

Well, and I mean, I love cedar trees, because they're such wonderful places for wildlife to go, and then we get the fruits off the female trees and chop them up and use them in hamburgers, now.

They have a great taste.

Juniper berry.

But, so I mean, You're not going to get away from cedar trees.

So, people who have fruit trees probably need to pay attention to this.

Rob>> Absolutely.

Absolutely.

I like to say that the hardening of both that ooze will indicate the spores have been released.

That will be the timing for fungicides to protect those fruit trees.

Amanda>> Okay!

And I think it's fun, too, recently the cedar trees which are either male or female.

Sometimes people say there are two different cedar trees because the male ones this time of year sometimes just look completely orangey and all that.

Dr. John>> They're producing pollen.

>> Huh?

Dr. John>> They're producing pollen.

Amanda>> Yeah, a lot of pollen and if you shake it, it'll get all over you which is kind of fun too.

Then you can go home and take a zyrtec or whatever those things are you take.

Okay, anyway, thank you all for being with us.

It was really a pleasure having you with us tonight.

And, we'll be here next Tuesday and we hope that you will be with us on Making it Grow.

Night, night.

♪ closing music ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Narration>> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by the South Carolina Department of Agriculture.

Certified South Carolina grown helps consumers identify, find and buy South Carolina products.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 22 varieties of peaches.

Additional funding provided by International Paper and the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance