e [Music] good evening and welcome to doctors on call I'm Mary Morehouse psychotherapist at Insight Counseling duth where I specialize in working with children teens young adults and parents I'm your host for our program tonight on parenting the success of this program is very dependent on you the viewer so please call in your questions tonight or send them in ahead of time to our email address at ask pbsn north.org the telephone numbers can be found at the bottom of your screen our panelists this evening include Celeste Schell andbox uh Jacqueline INR and Lindsay Sao phone volunteers are standing by to answer your calls and now on tonight's program on parenting welcome everyone I'm so excited about this topic um uh everyone here is a parent I believe and so this is um um uh something that I hear about in my practice all the time I working working with young adults parents um it's such a difficult thing for us to all navigate and there's not a lot of formal training I won't get on my soap box to say I wish that there was more parenting classes in high school so we could all you know we could all learn this stuff so um but let's just um let's just start with you um Celeste tell me a little bit about your practice where you work and what you specialize in yeah thanks Mary um so I own Deluth perinatal which is a private therapy practice specializing in reproductive and perinatal mental health okay so the full span of trying to become a parent are trying to conceive being pregnant postpartum and then naturally everything that follows which includes parenting which includes parenting yes it does all right Jacqueline tell me a little bit about where you work and what you do sure I work at Northwood Children's Services um I'm The Clinical Director there and we work with children as young as two years old up to 21 years old and that's everything from outpatient programs where you maybe would go and have therapy once weekly to impatient programs where the children live with us okay okay wonderful and tell us a little bit about where you work I work for fondak Behavioral Health um at fondak Behavioral Health my specialties include um parenting and parent child relationship therapy I also work with couples and individuals there as well and my age group of working with children is anywhere from birth to grownup yeah birth the grown-ups excellent and so a lot of times when we talk about working with um about parents in and children how important is it to work with the whole family and not just the children and not just the parents how how much of that do you see working with the children and the parents uh you know I used to see it more individualized I used to see just children and similarly with little children and quickly learned that they cannot be seen alone parents are vital yes the whole family unit is vital those relationships matter okay yeah yeah absolutely um so um tell me a little bit about um Jacqueline a little bit uh we were talking earlier about what it means to be a solid object for kids tell me a little bit about what you mean by that I love that I love that concept well the solid object is really something that um children can learn to know that no matter what happens they're going to be stable for that child their responses their reactions being Dependable um that that is the person they can count on to be not only physically present but also also emotionally able to take care of whatever that child needs okay and is that generally a um is that generally a parent that solid a solid object yeah usually it is a parent um sometimes and several different you know family systems look different and that can be a grandparent okay um that can be a co-parent or that could be a stepparent but it's really making sure that no matter who's working with that child they're when that child is really under distress and having a difficult time that that parent is able to be emotionally available be able to kind of separate the issue and see things from kind of that wise mind perspective their child is in their emotional mind and they're not using any logic so it's really up to the parent to be able to help navigate that with a child yeah and easier said than done yes right so so easier said than done um um and so um um Lindsay I want can you tell me a little bit about just some basic Child Development that that that we you know that not a lot of people know about and some kind of some of the normative behaviors around some Child Development which I realize is a huge question right we could we could spend the next sum up yes so I think really what what I think parents run into is that there's a lot of anxiety about parenting and nobody gets a book that says do this and know this when you have a baby and so sometimes uh adults will just apply their own sort of logic to things and and are really thinking that maybe the child is thinking that same way except they've had an lifetime to develop that thinking and it doesn't work that way for children and so when you're looking at an infant and what their needs are 100% you have to be attuned to what their cries are and what their needs might be and just trial and error trial and error trial and error and as they get older if you're paying attention you start to realize what it is that they need um but when there's something that goes wrong it's much harder to understand what it is that's going on with them and so staying calm and watching and paying attention and co-regulating with the child in the toddler ages is really important to understand and then as they start to get older and they get more Savvy it's really important to just understand that their brains are changing and working differently and so when you're working with a toddler the whole world is the toddler there is no there's nothing else you can't expect them to really understand someone else's perspective or have empathy for another child that they just threw something at that's normal learning cause and effect and and as they get older they will understand things a little bit more and a little bit more and I guess I can't sum all that up yeah but understanding that children don't think like adults and you have to kind of understand and watch them pay attention talk to them to understand where they are coming from and what's going on yeah absolutely that's such a great point because I think a lot of times parents well why isn't this happening or trying to talk to the kid um you know at at trying to trying to talk to at their level but really not you know trying to figure out that sweet spot of adult understanding of 30 or 20 or 30 or 40 years on this planet versus seven or eight or 10 or why is my child lying well that's kind of trying to figure out cause and effect it's kind of you know some of this development and some of this behavior is kind of it's natural and I think if we all look back on the way we were when we were kids we all did things how did we figure it out well by usually messing up and then figuring out the consequences of that right and why did you I've told you five times and why are you still doing it because that's how they learn is doing it over and over and over again yeah repetition is the key repetition is is the key which um uh uh Celeste uh brings us to a little bit about talking about circle of security and so that um I know I learned that in grad school and it was just I thought it was an amazing concept so can you speak a little bit of what circles a circle of security is certainly yeah uh very similar Concepts to what's already been discussed just different words so it's the idea of that caregivers parents whomever is available for a Child is This secure person it's a literal Circle where the parents are represented by this figure that is hands and as children go out to explore their world and learn all sorts of things through play and creativity that we can support them while they go out and then welcome them back in by filling their emotional needs um helping them regulate as long as we are regulated so that's co-regulation and it's really just this framework of how do parents and children work together and really how does the parent then learn how to read what are their children's cues and the Mis cues and it's just a a really helpful kind of framework to understand when my kid is out exploring their world they need me to play with them to Delight in oh my gosh you picked up the red truck I love that or as they come back to you um wow that was really so fun for you or oh you fell down and that hurt your knee that does kind of hurt that's ouch just a way to interact with them that is child friendly and all about that sense of secure attachment with caregivers who are bigger stronger wiser and kind who as often as they can Will Follow the child's need not necessarily their lead but then take charge whenever necessary gotcha and are there trainings for that in in in the area for for parents um yeah for parents certainly I was thinking professionals um yeah a lot of the local efe classes offer that um I'll do it with diads or with small groups myself I was training in a number of years ago but yeah ECF is a local option for Minnesota families okay wonderful wonderful um and Jacqueline if you could tell a little bit about you you meant to um when you were talking earlier about caling um what to be a solid object for kids calming spaces in in homes and I think so when kids inevitably become big disregulated kind of those they're not in their wise mind I love that you're using the DBT skills there um one of my favorites um so what does what does that look like a cal what does a calming space in in your home look like well it can look really different based upon which child and for some of us that have children we've been like wow we have one child that regulates this way and one that does it a completely different way and so it's really knowing what's going to work best when your child is really upset are they a fight flight freeze or Fawn type of child so that calming space should be things that are going to help them feel like this is what helps me calm down what helps my sister calm down is not going to help my you know my brother calm down so you maybe want a space that has a small spot to climb into and warm fuzzy things or lights that are nice and calm and relaxing you may want a space that has things to jump on and move around with because there's extra energy that they need to get out um you might have a space that has different smells and different sounds that the child has control over because they just need control over something so a calming Space is really a space that you've dedicated when they're in a good spot and when they're in their wise mind that you discuss together of what do you think would help you when you're really escalated really upset and is going to help you calm down and then you practice those when you're in a good spot so that then when they do get upset they're much more comfortable using it and it's not I'm being told I have to use it it's nope I was a part of making this decision and this is my choice to use it this is my choice and so you could have one spot but different objects if if multiple children you can have somebody wants books or somebody needs um soothing lotions or something like that so you can and then do it and I think that it's so important and so difficult but so important to try and have these conversations with our kids age appropriate when everyone's in a good mood when we're just when we're playing and you know yesterday when you hit your brother or your sister and that wasn't very nice and having those conversations um to remember to have those conversations when everything's when things are going well and it doesn't have to be expensive it doesn't have to be large it can be literally make a little blanket fort and that's their blanket fort spot yeah boxes as we all know the holidays are coming and my kids favorite toys for the boxes right that was what I made a dollhouse out of boxes that was better than the ball dollhouse that was purchased all right um we have a a a question um Lindsay um what's one thing you would recommend for parents to proactively take care of their own mental health this is a question yeah I know right well and I I think that's a perfect question because parents if they don't take care of their own mental health if they're spread too thin they're getting stressed their kids are picking up on that and it can come out in their parenting you end up having to make some last minute decisions about what to do about parenting you're in the moment and now you're like who you know if you don't do this then then I I don't know then you have to hurry up and think of like what's going to happen if you don't do this in a certain amount of time and so the best thing to do is to make sure that you have support system first because and it's not easy for everybody some people don't have healthy family members or close friends U maybe they're single parenting and they just don't have time but the most important thing is to have people that you can rely on that you can talk to that you can open up to about especially parenting stressors can make a big difference if you have another parent to talk to you about this annoying behavior that you've been dealing with for months and months and months and the other thing is to make space for your own time every single night if you don't even if it's five minutes 10 minutes 15 minutes it just needs to be quiet it needs to be your own time and it needs to be a space for you to just be without children yeah yeah and if it gets to a point where it feels too overwhelming then you ask for some support a little bit more professionally you can get your own therapist you can join a parenting group Circles of security is perfect for learning how to do your own self-care and take care of yourself and I think what happens is parents get shamed a lot for doing bad parenting and then they start to feel ashamed and they don't reach out because they feel like I'm the I'm just being a bad parent and then it defeats the whole purpose of um getting parents to do the right thing and so if if if parents are feeling ashamed and they can find someone who doesn't make them feel ashamed that's going to be a really good support person to reach out to and again having an individual therapist or a group you can join can make a big difference and even just learning parenting that can take some of the weight off of decision- making that you have to do yeah there's so many so many decisions with that and just that taking that 5 10 15 minutes that self-compassion piece having a little bit of self-compassion with for yourself because we you know the the more we take care of ourselves the better we can take care of others and it seems selfless or selfish at at the time but it's the most selfless thing we can do is just take that extra five minutes um or whatever it is take that yeah right and I think the the hard part for parents is sometimes they feel if I'm going to be a good parent I have to pour everything that I have into my children and that's not always the best thing that you can as a parent and and and actually what makes more sense is to show the children that you have a living in your home that you value your own health and that you take some time out to be with friends and that they can see that because then when they grow up they'll know that it's important to have friends to go visit um a relative to join therapy to be in a group and when they see that they learn that it's okay and that it's important to take care of yourself so that when it comes time you can help take care of other people that really need it yeah so I think trying to become that good good role model even if you didn't have that role model right we all didn't have great role models um growing up some of us did some of us didn't and so to be able to to to be the parent and I think that that is what we talked about earlier before um about learning or thinking about parenting before you even get pregnant can you speak to that certainly yeah I um really love those conversations when people are trying to conceive and they're visualizing what it'll be like to be a parent a natural part of the conversation is how are they parented and because that informs so much of when we're stressed we don't know what to do I'll just refer to what my mom or dad did or whoever else took care of me for better or worse and so thinking about that and and throughout pregnancy too H throughout each trimester and even you know the quote unquote fourth trimester postpartum uh I think of like trimester the first trimester when people are naturally protective of their bellies and crowded spaces like I I try to expand parenting to include that as well you're already protecting your baby that attachment is already there and moving into the other trimesters of like what do you think of this baby who do you think they will be when they make their worldly debut um how can you prepare for birth like all of that is so related and co-mingled in the best ways and in the hard ways too yeah yeah absolutely um um Jacqueline if we could um normalizing some behaviors and some teachable moments can you talk about just normalizing some behaviors of kids that that seem um that seem really big in the moment and you're like yeah that's that's what they do I mentioned lying before we mentioned hitting you know some of these things that as parents we go oh of course you never want your child to lie and to hid and to you know but that's part of the normal so can you normalize some behaviors that you see and go oh yeah that's that's right on schedule yeah um I think the the other one is manipulation yes negotiation those are all you're bringing me back that you're like oh wow you're catching on they're getting a little smarter than you're anticipating um but I think it's really important for us to not look at everything and be like oh no that means my child is this or that means means my child is this and really we don't need to diagnose everything because so much of the Stomping up the stairs and getting upset that's normal um the inability to get along with a sibling because you're just around each other all the time and you know throwing each other under the bus about actually this person broke this no this person broke this so there's some of those things that are are very normal The Sibling um sibling fights or not wanting to be around you anymore more and trying to find their own world with their friends and kind of you're like o that was a little snarky that was a little snotty testing out the attitude sometimes is also something that they see on TV they're emulating through older adults and older role models and so I it's really important for us to remember that those are teachable moments to say is that how you would like someone else to speak to you did that get you what you were hoping for and actually turning it into a question because a question becomes a convers ation just simply saying don't do that there's no learning that takes place and then there's no conversation there's no growth because you're always trying to build that emotional um awareness the self-awareness when they're that young too and they're always watching I mean that's something we can't forget they watch what we do in the car when somebody cuts us off how do we react as an adult to someone who steps in front of line um in the grocery store they're always watching and so they'll learn and they'll emulate that from you yeah that's it you know that's scary as a parent to know that they're always watching because we're not always at our best behav we're we're imperfect too parents aren't perfect and I know that I think that that's from from a parents perspective and from a child children's perspective parents aren't perfect your parent my parents aren't perfect none of you you know we're I'm not perfect parent and so to kind of give as a parent give yourself a little bit of Grace and go wow I didn't say what I wanted to say when that car cut me off that was not my best moment and to make that also a teachable moment you know what Mom didn't really act the way I should have and that's okay too that's perfect because we're asking them to do that right yes we're asking them to apologize and say when they did something wrong so when the adult is doing that that is just really reinforcing that for them yeah and it feels good to repair and that's another not to get overly into circle of security but such a big thing about being a good enough parent is when we inherently make mistakes or do things we regret that we acknowledge that but then we repair with that child right yeah I love that good enough parent CU sometimes that's just at the end of the day when you hit your when your head hits a pillow you're like well that was a good enough day and that's the best I can you know what that's that's the that's the best uh that's the best I can do um yeah so um uh roles clarification so like just different roles of different of different parents do feel like you can do you want some water you good I think I'm better now okay okay yeah so so the so different so different roles and I think kind of along with that you know we were saying like the the kids you know your your kids everything until middle schoolish starting into high school and then they start to go away so can you can you kind of speak of those some of those transitions well I think transitions can be harder for parents than they are for kids because they have to adjust emotionally to those changes as well and so the role of a child when they're a baby is for the parent to know and do everything and as a toddler it's for them to keep them safe and then let them go just a little bit further out on their own and as a preschooler just a little further and even though kids will never like the boundaries when they're that age it's really just so important for them to understand that this person is here to protect me and to keep me safe and so even though you're you're I'm just keeping you safe and they don't know what that means but they can feel it they know my parent is not going to let me walk over the edge of that I'm not going to get hurt when I'm around this parent but letting go is really important when they start getting older especially when they want to do their own things and all of the bad things that could happen in the world are all all of a sudden are in your head yes and but but when you think about your role as a parent is always to be someone who's safe to talk to because even when they step out and you can't control all the things that are going on especially in adolesence you can't control what other kids are going to say and do the way teachers behave the way their friends are going to treat them but they should be able to come back and say listen this is what's happening and not have that fear of which starts from infancy if they fear their parent it's going to be real tough for them to want to come and ask for help yeah and so with finding that balance between um uh authoritative but not authoritarian right parenting to be to be that that person that I can trust we can and to teach your kids that it's okay to um um or I I love it's okay for you to not like everything that I say and I do in fact they shouldn't your parents you you should as a parent our kids kids shouldn't always like our decisions right and that's expected that's okay but the love is there but yeah but but the love is there and they know that if you're if you're balancing that out with some real child- centered time if they're 14 years old and they barely ever want to spend time with you knowing that that's an option and that your parent likes you and wants to be around you even when we don't sometimes if they think that that will make them feel like okay even if I make mistakes I'm still loved great thank you so much I want to um I want to thank our panelists Celeste schnellenbach Jacqueline ingr ingr and Lindsay Sao for joining me tonight and the volunteers for answering your calls make sure to join Dr Peter nen next week on doctors on call for our show about eye issues cataracts glaucoma macular degeneration thank you for watching good night [Music] [Music]