[music playing] Kelly: We're on the road again for this episode of The Paw Report at the University of Illinois Veterinary Teaching Hospital.

Earlier this year the teaching hospital acquired a farrier service.

Coming up, as the saying goes, if the shoe fits, wear it.

We'll explain why this service has become so valuable to the teaching hospital so stay with us.

[music playing] >>Rameen Karbassioon:Okaw Vet Clinic in Tuscola and Dr. Sally Foote remind you to properly take care of your pets, and are happy to help support the Paw Report on WEIU.

Okaw Vet Clinic, located at 140 West Sale Street, in Downtown Tuscola.

More information available at okawvetclinic.com.

Dave's Decorating Center is a proud supporter of the Paw Report on WEIU.

Dave's Decorating Center features the Mohawk SmartStrand Silk Forever Clean carpet.

Dave's Decorating Center, authorized Mohawk Color Center,in Charleston.

Welcome to this edition of The Paw Report, I am your host, Kelly [Runyon and we're on the road again for The Paw Report.

We have traveled to the University of Illinois of Veterinary Teaching Hospital in Urbana.

We're talking about a very special program that's relatively new to the University of Illinois Veterinary Teaching Hospital, it's therapeutic farrier services.

Steve Sermersheim is joining us and he is a farrier.

He's going to tell us all about what he does.

We've got a lot of activity behind us and we're actually sitting in your office, technically Steve.

Steve: Yes.

Kelly: Thanks for joining us for this episode of The Paw Report.

As we mentioned, you're a farrier, some folks may not know what a farrier is, what a farrier does, take us back to where your interest started in this business.

Steve: Well my interest started when I had horses when I was out of high school.

My farrier left town and I decided I want to learn how to shoe my own horses, so I went to school in Michigan for a short course, and learned how to shoe my own horses.

Eventually people started asking me to shoe their horses, so I quit my full time job, and this is what I've done for 28 years now.

Kelly: This is your office, why don't you tell us where we're at.

There's some activity behind us as we're doing this interview, and it may change throughout the interview.

Where are we at today?

Steve: We are at the University of Illinois and ward four of the teaching hospital.

The people behind us are from the horse showing school that the university owns, Midwest Horse Showing School.

We have a couple instructors with us today, we have another farrier down the way shoeing horses.

That Diego [Amada 00:01:58], one of our ...

I messed up.

Kelly: Assistants, yeah.

Steve: Assistants, yeah.

Diego has shod horses with us for eight years now.

He also runs the horse showing school.

Kelly: This is also, there's farriers here, but there's also students that are learning the trade, is that correct?

Steve: Yes, yes.

The university acquired the Midwest Horse Showing School at the same time they acquired our farrier practice in February.

Kelly: Being a farrier, maybe we should discuss what it is, or define what a farrier is.

Is it a fairly unique profession?

Not a lot of farriers probably around.

Steve: You'd be surprised.

Well, there's probably 20 in this area, 20 to 25 in this area.

What we do is maintain horses feet.

It's that simple.

We trim them, sometimes they stay barefoot, we shoe them, we look at lameness with veterinarians with them.

Basically, we just maintain their feet like people maintain their fingernails.

Kelly: The profession really dates back, I said hundreds of years, but you quickly said well it actually goes back thousands of years.

Steve: Yes, yes.

There's evidence of grass shoes, and iron shoes, wooden shoes, all types of shoes, to protect horses.

When they used them, for example, for war, if your horse was lame, you lost the war.

They tried to figure out how to protect their feet because they would wear faster than they would grow, and they would get sore.

Kelly: What is the difference between a ...

I think if somebody thinks of shoeing, they think of the blacksmith, but there is a difference, a big difference between a farrier and a blacksmith.

Steve: Well the blacksmith, years ago, built the horseshoes, and built wagon wheels, and did iron work, gates, and that sort of thing, any metal work.

The farrier applied the horseshoes that the blacksmith made.

Now, we modify our own horseshoes.

It kind of separated.

Blacksmith also use to shoe horses occasionally, if you watch some of the old movies, but most of the time the blacksmith just made the shoes, and the farrier trimmed the feet, and applied the shoes.

Kelly: You're also a therapeutic farrier.

I have to be honest, prior to doing the interview, I didn't know what a therapeutic farrier what they did and how did you define them.

Obviously I know what a farrier is, but what is ... can you explain the therapeutic aspect?

You've had some specialized training.

Steve: Yes, I am certified by the American Farriers Association, and I have a therapeutic endorsement.

Basically what a therapeutic farrier does is work on lame horses with veterinarians.

We try to evaluate them, give them lameness exams, come up with a plan after the veterinaries have done a lameness exam, and X-rays, and ultrasounds, and MRIs, and all that sort of thing, and decide what kind of shoes may or may not help these horses.

Kelly: We're going to talk about lameness, because when you talk about that, you deal with a lot of horses that have that issue.

Let's go back to this program here at the teaching school, it's relatively new, it started earlier this year.

Why did you feel it was important?

You were a big cheerleader for this program and why do you think it was important it started here at the college?

Steve: Definitely, because I think that everybody has to be a team.

When we talk about horses and horse owners, I think the trainer, the owner, the veterinarian, the farrier, have to be a team.

If we're all working together, and we're all on the same page, it's the best thing for the horse.

Kelly: Let's talk about the actual lameness in horses.

What exactly is that?

We're going to do an episode with another doctor here at the college to go into grave detail, but what are some of the things that you notice with horse when they come in?

Steve: Well most horses are athletes, so I have to compare to human athletes, so if they're barrel racing, or jumping, or doing whatever they do, roping, anything they do, they have a tendency to get injured.

Just like a baseball player, a football player.

They pull soft tissues, they get bone bruises, there's a lot of things that these athletes that happens to them.

Sometimes they get put on the disabled list and that's where we come into play.

We have to take care of them and try to get them back to work again.

Kelly: Let's go into detail about the unique partnership that you have with the veterinarians here.

I'd like to know more how you're intertwined, and how you work together to make a horse better, and to see its through its whole prognosis.

Steve: Right, so if a client calls in and says they have a lameness problem they call me, they may call the veterinarians, they may just show up and say, "Hey I have a problem."

We come together as a team and occasionally we see them out on the road, so we look at them together.

We evaluate their lameness together.

We look at radiographs together, MRIs, anything we can to try to figure out how to make this horse sound.

Kelly: Doctor does the internal prognosis, and you come in, and you really help the external area of the problem.

Steve: Definitely.

Kelly: Or can.

Steve: we can, yeah, we see the internal process also, but we need their help to help find out what the problem is, pinpoint the problem with the horses.

It's a good relationship for your farrier and your veterinarian, whoever it may be, to have a good working relationship so they can diagnose the horses and try to get them fixed.

Kelly: Any specific problems that come to mind or any specific cases?

Obviously no names, or specific clients, but maybe some memorable cases that you've worked on, or have been assisted on.

Steve: There's many.

Kelly: Many?

I'd love to hear.

Steve: It's weekly, so we can't ... Today we've have a deep digital flexor tendon tear.

We're going to put a shoe on the horse to hopefully put a rest shoe on, hopefully give this horse time to correct itself.

We've removed keratomas, tumors out of feet.

When they do any type of surgery on a foot, usually it requires some sort of shoe, we see a lot of abscesses, which is common in this area, because it's wet and dry, and wet and dry, we put treatment plates on the bottom of their shoes so the customer has the opportunity to treat their horse at home, and they can do it themselves instead of leaving it at the hospital for a week or so.

There's many cases that we work on together.

Kelly: How do you determine the shoe processing?

Different horses, different sizes, different breeds, I'm curious to know how you go about the process of determining what's needed.

Steve: What's needed for the horse, well there's three reasons to shoe a horse, in my mind.

It's protection, so if the hoof doesn't grow as fast as ...

If the hoof wears faster than it can grow, it needs protection, because then they get sore, they quick, just like having your finger nails too short.

They need traction sometimes if they're a jumper, or a high speed horse, a race horse, a barrel horse, a jumper, they need traction.

Correction, that's where the therapeutic part comes in as well.

If they need some correction they get a shoe.

Kelly: Take me through the process of shoeing.

The students, and the farriers, that are behind us, they're doing that.

It's not a quick process.

Actually, it can be pretty physical, because you as a farrier, bending over constantly, you're trying to corral the horse, and make sure that they're comfortable.

I want to know the whole process that you have to go through from start to finish, even from bringing them into this wonderful place.

Steve: When we see a horse we watch them move first, make sure they're sound, or if they're not sound, try to determine why they're not sound.

Then when we watch them move, and then we watch them stand statically, and make sure their legs are nice and straight if possible.

Just look at their conformation.

Then we determine how much we need to take off, because they grow, we shoe these horses ... Kelly: Of their hoof.

Steve: Of their hoof, their hoofs grow, we shoe them every four to eight weeks.

It's an average of six weeks that we shoe them.

We determine how much needs to be taken off.

We try to get them level and balanced.

As time goes on between their shoeing cycles, they become unbalanced.

Ether they grow, their growth makes them unbalanced, or their wear makes it them unbalanced, depending on their conformation.

Once we determine that, then we size a shoe up for them.

Kelly: Do you make the shoes here?

Steve: Yes.

Kelly: On site?

Steve: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kelly: Then once you file them down, you fit the shoes, and then ... Steve: Yep, we fit them, and then nail them, and, or glue them sometimes.

We do use pre-made shoes sometimes and sometimes we, just depending on the horse, we make our own shoes out of bar stock, it just depends.

Then we nail them on, and clench them up, send them out the door.

That takes about, on average, about an hour to an hour and 20 minutes to shoe a whole horse.

Kelly: Probably a silly question to someone like yourself, but do all horses have to have shores?

Do all hooves have to have shoes?

Steve: No.

Many horses can stay barefoot.

A lot of horses are barefoot.

How we determine that is if they don't become lame, or they don't wear their feet faster, then they grow it, they're fine barefoot.

Some horses just can't handle, if they're going to go on rocky terrain, or something, and they can't handle it, it makes them sore, we have to put some protection on them.

Kelly: I'd have to believe that the educational instruction to learn how to do what you do, and then to share your talents with others, is quite a lengthy process.

You have to learn by doing.

Is it a long educational process that you have to go through to learn what you do?

Steve: Well it's really a lifetime.

Like I said, I've been doing it almost 30 years, and I learn something new all the time.

The system in the United States is a little different than the system around the world.

There's no licensing here.

You really don't have to have any education, you could just go start shoeing horses.

I don't recommend that whatsoever.

Kelly: Sure.

Steve: The system we use here at Midwest Horseshoeing School at Illinois is they go through a 20 week process.

Then we try to find them an apprenticeship.

We always suggest a two year apprenticeship.

We try to place students with people that we know and that are going to give them a good education, and vice versa.

Our student is going to give them hard work.

Kelly: Right, what's the best advice that you give to young students, young farriers, that are coming into the trade?

Maybe some things that you've learned along the way, the dos and the don'ts, of this business.

Steve: There's a lot.

Kelly: Well ... Steve: First of all is study hard.

Back in the day when I started they said a good farrier had a strong back and a weak mind.

That's not true.

We need to know anatomy, we need to know how to forge horseshoes, we need to know conformation, we need to as many things, or more, as a veterinarian does, at least about the lower limb.

Study hard, work hard.

Kelly: Also practice hard.

Steve: Practice hard, definitely.

Kelly: Practicing, are you involved a lot in the daily what we're seeing?

Maybe you can explain to us what we're seeing behind us.

You're obviously very heavily involved in what we're seeing.

Steve: Right, well we started this school ...

The school has been around since 1964, we acquired the school about eight years ago, Diego and I did.

Then when the university stepped in, they bought it, which was a huge help for us.

Kelly: Right.

Steve: It's great for the students, because we have the great facilities, and the veterinarians to help us.

Diego runs the school mainly, but the process .

.. Jess, she's one of our instructors, part time instructors.

Kelly: Diego is in the back.

Steve: Yeah.

Kelly: He's actually forming up some shoes right now that we hear clanking in the background.

Steve: Yes, for this horse down here.

We just teach them good basics.

We can't teach them everything to know in 20 weeks, so once 20 weeks is over they need to go out and kind of get in the real world, so to speak, and learn from someone else, and several people.

We do a lot of continuing education.

The kids, we set them up with continuing education opportunities throughout their career.

That helps them as well.

Kelly: You also, while again, this is your office, but you have the chance to travel around central Illinois, and still visit farms, and provide advice to folks that are just unsure about maybe their horse.

Steve: Yes.

Yes, we offer ... We're on the road three to four days a week.

We offer hoof care classes, short courses here.

We're going to start offering that here in the fall for horse owners.

My best advice to horse owners is pick your horse's feet everyday.

Make sure they're in a nice, clean, dry environment.

We live in the Midwest so it is wet occasionally, but you need to check the horse's feet every day.

Make sure there's no punctures, nails, thrush, bacteria, that's my best advice when I'm out on the road.

Kelly: When people call you, probably, what is the most common question that you get from horse owners?

Not just the inexperienced, or maybe somebody that's new to having a horse on their property, but maybe even the most experience horse owner.

Steve: How soon can you get here?

That's the most ... Kelly: How soon can you get here?

It's like a plumber right?

Steve: Right, right.

When we get calls like that, most people are on a schedule.

When we leave they know their next date, it's a rotating schedule all the time.

They ask a lot of questions about lamenesses, and a specific horse, and a lot of times we just ... we can't answer it over the phone, we need to go look at them.

Kelly: How often, if we could maybe talk a little maintenance, how often, and I think you mentioned it briefly, but we'll expand upon it.

How often do horses need their feet trimmed?

Speaking of foot care, does time of year, age, physical activity, does all that play into your diagnosis of what they need?

Steve: All of that plays into it.

Depending on what part of the country you live in, because of weather, it changes, but here in the Midwest we shoe horses, I would say most of our horses, four to eight weeks, get trimmed or shod.

An average of six weeks they get shod.

Does age matter?

Sure.

Horses, the older they get, usually after the age of 12 to 15, their hooves don't grow as fast.

Kelly: Quickly.

Steve: As quickly for many reasons.

That doesn't mean they don't need to be done every six weeks, because you have to maintain them.

It's as mostly important when they're older to maintain their feet than it is when they're younger, I would say.

I mean it's important for all ages, but that does play a part in how often they get done.

We just may not take off.

What we're paid for, as farriers, is what we leave, not what we take.

If we take too much, then we make them sore.

Kelly: How do you train your horse to be good to the farrier?

The horses, if you're not around them a lot, they're a magnificent animal, but they can be intimidating.

I'm certain, if somebody is messing around with your feet, or hands, you kind of get a little nervous about that.

Sometimes it could be a dangerous job.

Maybe you can talk about some experiences that you've had with horses, and maybe what you kind of go through, and how you treat the horse when you go through the process.

Steve: We try to remain calm, because the horse can feel if you're nervous, or whatever.

Most horses should be trained before we get there.

We're not horse trainers.

The client should have the horse trained.

They should pick their feet up everyday.

They should mess with their legs, get them in different positions, and then they usually get to use to it.

Most horses are easily trainable if they're worked with a lot.

If they're not, you can tell.

We don't work on a lot of bad horses, because we're lucky to have great clients.

There's certain cases where there are horses that have been abused, or something, we usually have the vet come out, and give them a little sedation, so then it's safe for everyone.

We can do a better job on the horses, no one gets hurt, and the client doesn't get hurt, we don't get hurt, the horse doesn't get hurt.

Most of our horses stand well because of our clients take good care of them.

Kelly: Have you ever been kicked?

Steve: Not today yet.

Kelly: Not today.

Steve: Yes, many times.

Kelly: Can you feel it in the horse when it's going to happen?

Steve: Yes.

You feel the energy.

Kelly: Stand back, you just feel the tenseness of the animal.

Steve: Right.

Kelly: Get back and stand back.

Steve: That's what we teach the students.

Kelly: I was going to say.

Steve: Be calm, put them in a comfortable position, and you could be in an uncomfortable position for a while if they're going to give you a hard time, and get the job done.

Experience brings that on.

You know when it's going to happen.

I don't get kicked as often as I use to when I first started.

Kelly: How do you know, if I'm a horse owner, and I'm not talking about you or your students here, but if it's somebody from outside the area, how would you know that your farrier is doing a good job, and taking good care of your horse?

What should you look for when they're done?

Steve: Well you should always look for ... First of all, you should ask a lot of questions of your farrier.

Kelly: Those questions should be ... Steve: Should be how do my horse's feet look?

Is there any concerns?

Are they balanced well?

What do I need to do to keep their hooves and feet healthy?

That sort of thing.

If your farrier can't answer that ... Kelly: Pick up the phone and call someone else.

Steve: Well, yeah, or help them get educated, but there's so much literature out there, some good, some bad.

The worst thing we hate to hear as farriers is, "I was on the internet," but the internet is a good, and there's magazines, and there's books for horse owners that are great, to tell you what a normal hoof should look like, and the parts of the hoof should look like.

Kelly: There's also pet columns here at the University of Illinois Veterinary Teaching Hospital, that people can seek out, that has provided articles for ... Steve: Oh definitely.

Kelly: ... for owners too.

How can you keep your job safe, again?

As far as making sure the animal stays comfortable.

I think that's one thing that horse owners too probably want to know.

Steve: Sure, I think it's all about common sense.

Have a nice safe environment to work in.

Have the right people handling the horse for you, because that's not safe for the horse, or whoever is underneath them, or the client.

You have to have some horsemanship.

We preach that a lot at this school, horsemanship, and it's hard to learn.

It takes time to learn that.

That's how we keep them safe.

Kelly: What's the one thing that you enjoy most about your job?

Steve: I enjoy the people.

I enjoy when we can take a horse that's been lame, and make him more comfortable, or her more comfortable.

That's really rewarding.

We can't make them all, you know.

I always use the analogy of our favorite baseball player at some point in time, or whatever athlete, has to retire.

Sometimes these equine athletes have to retire.

It's really hard for us to accept.

It's really tough for horse owners, I'm a horse owner, and the horse owners to accept that sometimes it's time to quit jumping him five feet, and maybe we can give him a nice in the pasture, and you can trail ride him sometimes.

The best thing is, is when we can make them feel more comfortable, for me.

Kelly: Well said.

If there's somebody out there watching, and they have questions, or they're unsure about something, or maybe their horse just seems a little quirky, and not functioning properly, do you welcome phone calls here at the teaching hospital to assist people?

Where can they go for guidance?

Steve: Yes, call the teaching hospital, call your veterinarian, call your farrier, try to work it out.

You're probably going to end up having someone come out to the farm, or come into the clinic here, and we'll take a look, and see if we can evaluate it, and if we can help.

Kelly: You're a welcoming staff here.

The students are so eager to learn, and help, and you can just tell their love of horses here.

Steve: Oh yeah, that's great.

Kelly: Steve thank you so much for joining us for this episode.

It's been very knowledgeable, and I tell you what, I don't know how you do it.

Horses are beautiful and wonderful, but I don't know if I could get behind them, but kudos to you, and what a wonderful job you're doing with the vets here at U of I. Steve: Great, thank you.

Kelly: Thank you.

Thank you for joining us for this episode of The Paw Report.

I'm your host, Kelly Runyon, and we'll see you next time.

Dave's Decorating Center is a proud supporter of the Paw Report on WEIU.

Dave's Decorating Center features the Mohawk SmartStrand Silk Forever Clean carpet.

Dave's Decorating Center, authorized Mohawk Color Center,in Charleston.>>Rameen Karbassioon:Okaw Vet Clinic in Tuscola and Dr. Sally Foote remind you to properly take care of your pets, and are happy to help support the Paw Report on WEIU.

Okaw Vet Clinic, located at 140 West Sale Street, in Downtown Tuscola.

More information available at okawvetclinic.com.

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