<Announcer> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina is a cooperative effort among farmers, retailers, and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture to help consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

The Boyd Foundation supporting outdoor recreational opportunities, the appreciation of wildlife, educational programs, and enhancing the quality of life in Columbia, South Carolina and the Midlands at large.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.

♪ <Amanda> Well, good evening, and welcome to Making It Grow.

We're so glad you can join us tonight.

I'm a Clemson horticulture agent and I get to come over here and learn from all these fabulous people every week.

It's continuing education at its best.

And we have a fun show tonight.

Mike Gibson is a property artist.

You will enjoy this, I promise, and we're going to learn about the ServSafe Program that Clemson's Faith Israel does.

So you'll feel very confident when you're eating out.

And then Cartersville Country Winery where I think you went a while go, Terasa?

<Terasa> That's right.

I think it's been about a year.

<Amanda> Yeah, and it's a muscadine?

<Terasa> It is, it is, so the muscadines are used to produce wine, and then they do various flavors as well.

So you can enjoy a peach flavored wine.

<Amanda> Really?

Come on.

Well, of course, Terasa Lott, who is not a wine...

I'm not making this...

I don't want to make them think (laughing) that you spend all your time drinking different flavored wines, but Terasa Lott, when she's not drinking wine, is the coordinator of the Master Gardener Program throughout the state: a big job.

And Terasa, thank you for all you do.

And thank you for what your master gardeners do.

<Terasa> Oh my goodness, they provide such a huge service to the state of South Carolina, really extending our reach, so that we can take that research based information and share it with more folks.

A lot have taken an interest in native plants, and how timely, because the third week in October is Native Plant Week in South Carolina.

That was first introduced, I believe, into legislation in 2017 and signed by Governor McMaster in 2018 to always recognize the importance of native plants.

<Amanda>: Well, that's wonderful.

And we all have recognized that because we realize how the food chain is so dependent upon that, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Well, thank you very much.

Rob Last, you are a commercial horticulture agent.

And you have a lot of counties that are kind of down towards Barnwell and Allendale and down there.

What... and I always think of that as watermelons and melons.

<Rob> Absolutely, I mean, that's what we're known for, is watermelons and melons, Amanda.

But we are looking at, we are getting some sweet potatoes coming out of the ground right now.

We're also looking at getting some broccoli and cabbage and those Brassica leafy green transplants going in the ground for winter cropping as well.

<Amanda> So, they're going to keep working all the time as farmers do.

<Rob> As farmers do, yes.

<Amanda> Now, you are from Great Britain, and do y'all eat, do y'all enjoy melons and watermelons over there?

<Rob> Yes, but they all have to be imported.

<Amanda> Oh, of course, yes.

<Rob> But yes, there's a big market for melons.

<Amanda> Is there?

Okay, okay.

Well, I wonder if any of ours ever go...

They probably come from nearby countries.

<Rob> Yes, I believe it's Spain - Spain and Portugal.

<Amanda> Okay, fun.

All right.

Carmen Ketron, you are a horticulture agent and you're over in Florence.

And I must say, Carmen just does the most magnificent flower arrangements you've ever seen, and her ability to collect things that set each other off is just wonderful.

I'm really in awe of you.

But you also know a lot about horticulture.

And I think you've got a program running that you kind of do every year now.

<Carmen> Yes, we do the Southern Gardeners Boot Camp series up in the Pee Dee region right now.

It's the second season we're doing it.

And think of it kind of as a Master Gardener-light, only eight weeks, and a lot of people, they'll take the whole eight week course going from soils all the way to vegetables.

But sometimes you can also take it as individual classes.

And one of the big ones that everyone's already signed up for is cut flower gardens.

<Amanda> (laughs) You know, now that is considered part of the agricultural industry, people who are growing flowers, which I just think is so much fun.

<Carmen> Oh, yeah, there's a big industry of South Carolina growers that are getting into cut flowers.

It's wonderful.

And the stuff that they make, and that they're producing is wonderful for us.

<Amanda> And you know, when we order, when we go to a lot of places, a lot of those plants are grown in South America.

And I mean, I'm so happy to have that opportunity to get them, but they're older when they get here, and so the local cut flowers are usually going to be a little fresher.

<Carmen> Yes, and a lot of the times, they have just beautiful flowers that do not ship well.

<Amanda> That you can't ship, yeah, yeah, yeah.

<Carmen> You cannot, absolutely not.

And so we get a much bigger variety when you actually purchase local.

<Amanda> Yeah, that's true.

Okay.

And Davis Sanders came down from South Pleasantburg Nursery.

And what do you call that car, that truck you've got out there?

<Davis> Oh, "The Black Pearl."

<Amanda> The Black Pearl!

(laughs) <Davis> Just like Johnny Depp's ship in the Pirates of the Caribbean movies.

It's old, it's beat up, it leaks, but it gets me where I'm going.

<Amanda> Yeah, well, we're so glad that it gets you all the way down here.

And you bring such wonderful things.

And y'all have been in your location where y'all are for Lord knows how long.

<Davis> Over 57 years, mm-hm.

<Amanda> Okay, and it's easier to find you, because you kind of cleared the bank a little bit.

<Davis> We cleared the bank.

We put up a new fence.

We built a boulder wall around the parking lot, and yeah, it's very accessible now, and people still think that we're a small nursery 'til they pull down into the end of the parking lot and realize we've got nine and a half acres.

<Amanda> Including fish.

<Davis> Yes, we carry koi and goldfish for the pond enthusiast.

<Amanda> Whew!

Okay, wow.

It's a busy time.

<Davis> Yes, it is.

<Amanda> Yes, Terasa, I think we start off with Gardens of the Week , just to have something pleasant before we tackle hard questions.

<Terasa> We sure do, Amanda.

Gardens of the Week has become so much fun.

It's like taking a virtual field trip around the state.

Sometimes we actually move past the borders of South Carolina.

Let's take a look and see what we have today.

We're going to begin with Belinda Debelli, who shared her outdoor fireplace accented with plants.

<Amanda> I'm just going to say, I wonder when she's going to be able to use it.

(laughter) <Terasa> It has been a bit warm.

But I mentioned those cooler temperatures.

<Amanda> At night, yeah.

<Terasa> They're coming.

<Terasa> Bob Eakle shared a bee enjoying the water feature that he added to his native wildflower garden.

So he said it's not really a Garden of the Week , but I think we can include it anyhow.

A monarch caterpillar was shared by Rebecca MacNeal.

From Glennis Cannon, we have a white cow pea flower.

And then we wrap up today with a lovely orchid.

This was submitted by the Rensing Center, and I think this is one of the Oncidiums, so I had actually shared a photo.

I'm anxiously awaiting a new orchid rescue, a new Dendrobium, to open.

The flowers are still developing and the Rensing Center shared their orchid that was already in flower.

<Amanda> Well, wonderful.

That's just too great.

Okay, thank you so much, and thanks to everybody who submitted those.

We really do appreciate it and I think they're kind of chosen at random.

So don't get your nose out of joint.

<Terasa> Oh, that's right.

Definitely at random.

I'm not trying to say any is better than anyone else.

<Amanda> Okay.

Well, Davis, y'all just have everything in the world up there, but this time of year, a lot of people want to have a pretty fall container.

<Davis> Mm-hm.

<Amanda> And I think you brought some things that we could... to give us some ideas.

<Davis> Yes, I did.

I brought... Of course, when people think of the fall containers, the thought immediately goes to pansies, violas, as well as the ornamental cabbages and kales, but there's so many more things that you can do with a fall and winter container.

Some of the things that I bought this time... Have you ever thought about possibly doing an edible container?

Now, this is really nice for the people who live in town homes or apartments.

As long as you've got a little bit of a patio, you can have a colorful container all winter long.

<Amanda> And harvest a little bit?

<Davis> And harvest a little bit.

<Amanda> So you could do like that?

<Davis> Right, the mescluns and the different types of lettuces, you'll harvest those as they produce, and you'll have baby greens, and they're gonna keep going really until it starts dropping below freezing every night.

I mean, they are, with just a little bit of shelter, you can keep them going most winter.

<Amanda> Yeah, and if you just got a pot, you can even cover it at night if you need to.

<Davis> Mm-hm, just throw a pillowcase over it.

That's all you need.

<Amanda> Okay, well let's see what some of these wonderful things are.

<Davis> Well, I've got just an all star mix of lettuce along with the mesclun lettuces.

This is a tricolor sage that it's... of course, with Thanksgiving coming up, you're gonna need some sage for the dressing.

<Amanda> Yes, you are.

<Davis> And it's very ornamental.

It's got the purple stems along with the white variegation and the primarily blue gray, green leaves, and the colors will become more and more intense as the as the winter progresses.

Of course, everybody loves rosemary.

You can flavor all sorts of things: fish, pork, poultry.

<Amanda> I've got a great rosemary shortbread cookie that I make.

<Davis> Mm-hm.

<Amanda> It's just fabulous.

<Davis> I actually had a creme brulee flavored with rosemary not too terribly long ago, and it was delicious.

And another one that a lot of people don't realize can be ornamental and edible is cilantro.

Cilantro is, a lot of people make the mistake of planting too much of it in the summertime.

It is a cool weather herb.

In the summer, it has a very short lifespan.

It will only live for about a month until the heat gets to it.

So the people that want to grow it in the summertime, I suggest getting a packet of seeds, and about once a week, sprinkling just a few more seeds so you can keep it going.

But in the wintertime, it will just be this nice pretty little well behaved mound.

You can go out and harvest it as you need it.

It's also, sometimes in the cooler weather, the new growth comes out with a little bit of the pinkish or purple tint, so it's gonna complement the lettuces and the sage.

<Amanda> Since you are from the South, I'm gonna ask you, if you're like me, have cornbread dressing?

<Davis> Yes.

<Amanda> Okay.

<Davis> Is there any other kind?

<Amanda> Some people have other kinds, and I'm sure they're delicious, but we're used to... <Davis> Where have I been all my life?

<Amanda> (laughing) Oh, ok!

<Davis> Oh, in the South!

<Amanda> Yeah, that was a lot of fun.

Thank you so much.

And I think later on in the show, we're gonna have a lot of fun, because y'all are gonna, some of y'all are gonna work together and make a container.

<Davis> To get our hands dirty.

<Amanda> Yeah, that's always fun.

Okay, we like to have dirty fingernails.

<Davis> Mm-hm.

<Amanda> All right, Terasa.

(Amanda sighs) I guess you've got some questions for us.

<Terasa> I do.

And this one's not a problem, per se, but keeping with that fall or winter theme, Carol in Greer wrote to us on our Facebook page.

She said, "I'm planning to plant clover and annual rye "in my raised beds.

"When should I seed?

"Do I need to cut the plants back before they set seed?

"And then do I work the cover crop into the soil when spring planting time comes around?"

<Amanda> Oh, goodness.

<Terasa> Lots of questions all rolled into one.

<Amanda> Well, and it's interesting, because the whole trend, I think, now in sustainable agriculture is to always have living roots in the soil, if I'm not mistaken, Rob, is that true?

<Rob> Absolutely.

I mean, anything that you can do to, to have living roots in the soil, be that in a raised bed, or actually in the yard itself, is going to hold that soil together through the winter, preventing some of that erosion, potentially, from water movement, and also recycling and retaining those nutrients within the soil profile as well.

<Amanda> Well, what do you think this person should do?

<Rob> Okay, so typically, in the Lowcountry of South Carolina, we look at planting winter cover crops, fall cover crops, mid October, and that would obviously be earlier as you're heading towards the Midlands, and earlier still towards the Upstate.

<Amanda> But, you know, a lot of things have changed now, because we don't get a frost until later, so I think sometimes just whenever you can get out there.

<Rob> Absolutely.

Anything that we can do, regardless of any planting date that is suggested, is exactly that: It's a suggestion.

There's always a window that we can use to push the boundaries a little bit.

Yes, if we're growing something edible, it may be that we don't quite get the yield we were looking for, or quite get the quality, but it's still going to be there.

And the same is true with cover crops.

So mixing the rye and clover, I think you said, Terasa?

<Terasa> Yes.

<Rob> That's a really good system.

<Amanda> Oh!

<Rob> What you're doing, the rye is going to provide biomass.

So that's going to feed all of your soil microorganisms, retain some of the nitrogen and phosphorus and potassium from the soil.

And the clover is also going to be beneficial by fixing its own nitrogen through the course of the winter and its active growth, enabling you to typically, we'd say about 30 to 50 pounds of nitrogen can be fixed by clover during its lifecycle.

<Amanda> If... <Rob> So, that's a saving on an acreage basis.

So, we can then start to reduce our fertilizer inputs for the following crop.

And in answer to the question, yes, you would need to look at terminating the cover crop, because rye and clover are quite frost hardy and frost tolerant.

So you're not going to get the winter kill.

<Amanda> Which means they're going to want to make seeds.

<Rob> Which means they're going to want to make seeds.

So, if you start to see seed heads forming, then yes, absolutely take them off or, ideally, cut them off before the plants have a chance to flower.

That way you're not going to be creating weed seeds for future cropping.

<Amanda> Okay.

<Rob> When we come to the end of the cover crop cycle, there's two things that we can do: One is definitely we're going to need to terminate.

So that could be crimping, which is folding stems to basically kill the above ground foliage.

The second way, and it's an inorganic process, would be to actually use a chemical herbicide, a total herbicide such as glyphosate can work very well.

<Amanda> Following the directions.

<Rob> Following the directions on the label can be very effective for terminating cover crops.

If you have terminated a cover crop, you don't necessarily need to incorporate them, because they're going to be dead, and they're actually going to form that mulch layer on the soil surface, protecting your seed.

<Amanda> Oh!

<Rob> If you wanted to avoid having to look at terminating the crops, oats and peas are much more frost susceptible, so will likely to be killed out by winter freeze, enabling us to use non inversion techniques for cultivation.

<Amanda> And again, just let them remain and then you just go in and pull a space in search of new plants.

<Rob> Absolutely.

<Amanda> And not having to disturb the soil and upset all the microorganisms and things that apparently have all kinds of living systems and highways and byways.

<Rob> That's the thing.

We see soil as dirt, but it is actually an ecosystem.

And what we're trying to do with cover crops is feed that ecosystem to really provide a healthy environment for our plants to grow.

<Amanda> Well, Terasa, I'm so glad that person sent that question in.

I think a lot of people enjoy having good advice of how to help keep the nutrients in the soil there and improve the soil when they're not using it.

<Rob> And for in-the-ground situation as well.

Prevention of erosion is a big thing, particularly, more towards the Upstate, but that's a really big issue too.

<Amanda> Okay, great.

Terasa?

<Terasa> You're ready for another question?

<Amanda> Yes, we are.

<Terasa> (laughs) Well, this one comes with the great debate about how to pronounce.

It comes from Kody in Green Sea.

And he says, "The pecan (PE-can) tree or pecan (pe-CON) tree in my front yard started dropping fully leafed out limbs one night with just a little breeze.

It has a big crop of pecans on it, and the tree looks otherwise healthy.

Am I missing something?

<Amanda> Well, Carmen, I have some real old pecan trees in my yard, and we'll talk about that, you and I, too, but go ahead and tell me what you are going to answer to this person?

<Carmen> Well, I say PE-can so that's the important part.

(laughter) But additionally... <Amanda> If you want to say, what did our wonderful friend Tony say?

<Carmen> I was always told that Tony used to say, you know, PE-can is for what you put under the bed, because he grew up... <Amanda> With an outhouse, yeah.

<Carmen> So, and I always loved hearing that one.

But sometimes it's PE-can if it's in a pie, pe-CON if it's on a tree, right?

Or it's the... <Davis> Or ice cream.

<Carmen> Or ice cream.

So, you can do it either way.

But when you have a big crop of pecans, and a lot of us in the Pee Dee have had a wonderful season right now.

Just everything went right.

And often, they will drop limbs because it's just so heavy with pecans.

And it can be too heavy and can sometimes snap that branch.

But I always encourage people, if they're taking a look at it, make sure to inspect for any disease, any rot that you have on the limbs, if there's some type of rot in the heart center.

And so always try to inspect, make sure.

And additionally, if it looks pretty healthy, that's pretty much normal around this time, especially when it starts to get rainy and a little windy.

But I promise as soon as you start picking up the limbs, more are going to fall.

It's just how it works.

<Amanda> The trees in my yard are 100 years old.

And I don't have the resources to have somebody come in and take care of them.

I just don't, and so they're kind of, you know, a lot of them have had a broken branch here and there.

But the strange thing is that at this age, they don't produce so plentifully anymore.

And occasionally, just on a perfectly calm day, a limb will come down, and I've noticed this a lot.

I was out getting the mail with my son when he was an infant, and a limb came around us as we were getting the mail out.

And it was just, you know, so they're just kind of, they just tend to be kind of funky about losing limbs.

<Carmen> Yeah, and self pruning, totally normal, especially the lower branches because those pecan trees, they love a good full sun.

Those lower branches, as they start to move and more start to take over on the top canopy, the lower ones will start to just break, and really it's almost like they're doing themselves a favor.

But if you have a real jagged snap, it is ideal, if you have the resources, to try and cut that clean, so that it's not an open jagged wound to kind of prevent better wound care.

<Amanda> Terasa will enjoy this: The people before us had had some people come in and cut some limbs back, and it left, actually, kind of a bowl up, you know, I don't know, 15 feet in the air, and the cat loved to sunbathe in it.

Trust the kitty cat.

(laughs) Well, thank you so much for that.

<Carmen> You're welcome.

I did go and get some pecans for us.

Now, these are a little bit on the smaller side, so people are gonna wonder, but... <Amanda> You know, one of my favorites is one of the new varieties and I can't remember what it is now, that is a smaller nut that has more, has higher fat content.

<Carmen> Oh, the good meat.

<Amanda> Yeah.

<Carmen> Oh, I see.

Now, a lot of people, if the limbs will drop, sometimes they'll see ones like this.

And it's not worth it.

Especially if they're young and immature.

They don't have any of the good meat in it.

But, if you have them, they're broken out like so.

It's always nice to crack them and check it out.

But if you don't have one of those nutcrackers, always just take two, and then you can just put them together, and that will actually crack them for you.

So you have your own handmade cracker.

<Amanda> You want to do that again closer to your mic?

<Carmen> Oh, sure.

(laughing) <Amanda> Because I can hear it, but I want to be sure everybody can hear it.

<Carmen> (laughing) All right, so... <Amanda> A portable pecan cracker.

<Carmen> Exactly!

You're ready for your portable pecan cracker?

Oh, no, now it's gonna... Oh, no!

(cracking and crunching) There you go.

<Amanda> (applauds) Very good!

<Carmen> And you got your meat right there.

<Amanda> Okay.

<Davis> It's a digital pecan cracker.

<Amanda> Oh, that was wonderful!

(laughter) <Amanda> Thank you, Carmen, for the information and for the fun.

We enjoyed so much talking to Mike Gibson, a property artist.

And I think you're going to be fascinated to learn about him as well.

♪ I'm at the University of South Carolina in downtown Columbia and I'm speaking with Mike Gibson.

Mike, you are a interesting artist.

You are a property artists.

<Mike> That's correct.

<Amanda> So tell me what in the world a property artist is?

<Mike> Well, you have all kinds of artists right and I knew growing up I was going to be an artist, I just didn't know what.

So eventually, when I started getting more into topiary and and beautifying properties, I figured I need a coin this name that no one else has.

So I became a property artist.

I beautify properties, artistically with topiary.

<Amanda> Now, of course in South Carolina, we're all familiar with Pearl Fryar's work, which is a particular style that he developed, but it's just like sculpture.

I mean, we've gotten modern sculpture, we've got traditional sculpture, we've got, you know, post modernism, and you have your own style.

<Mike> I was already doing property art before I heard of Pearl Fryar.

But once I heard of Pearl, it kind of enhanced my skill set a little bit more, and just start thinking outside the box, I saw what was possible, I would just say.

You know, he showed there's a freedom with topiary.

You can do whatever you want, you know.

And I fell in love with that idea.

So my style takes a little bit of Pearl's style.

There's a gentleman that I use all his tools, Niwaki tools.

His name is Jake Hobson.

I read a book that he wrote, called Creative Pruning.

And he showed all these different styles all, over the world.

And that opened my mind even even wider.

<Amanda> All over the world?

<Mike> All over the world.

I mean, there's topiary in Australia and Thailand, all in England and Russia.

Oh my goodness!

There's some beautiful sculptures in Russia.

And I never was exposed to this.

You know, growing up in Youngstown, Ohio, I've never seen topiary like this.

So it opened up my mind and I started developing my own style.

So my style was more like a, I would say it's like a Pearl style.

It's like sculpting.

I feel like it's like Michelangelo sculpting stone, you know.

But I do like this, what I call illusion.

It's topiary illusion.

So illusion art.

So I may have this vision in my head, what it should be and what I want it to be.

But you may see some from a different perspective and see something totally different.

And that's the beauty of it.

<Amanda> What you enjoy doing, I think is not just one or two things, you'd like to say.

You wouldn't have your living room five different styles.

Let's let your yard be a style?

<Mike> Yes, yeah.

So how I approach a new client, I would talk to you.

I will learn more about you.

Learn about the environment.

See what's around that area, and then incorporate that and work on the entire canvas.

I don't want to just do one tree because that's minimizing my skill set.

You know, I can do everything.

I can do your entire property and I want to trim the smallest shrubs to the tallest shrub and incorporate that all into one unique piece that we had.

<Amanda> I think it's very fortunate that now you have a new title and responsibility which is... <Mike> Yes, I'm currently the artist in residence at the Ernest A Finney, Jr.

Cultural Arts Center.

They're soon to open here in downtown Columbia.

We're currently renovating the building right now, but we are actively doing some workshops to help teach the community some not so normal trades like say, topiary.

<Amanda> But Chief Justice Finney, one of the things he was known for, and that made him so successful was being able to bring diverse people together, and have them try to come to an understanding or an appreciation.

And I think what y'all are gonna do, if I'm not mistaken, is you'll have some presentations and you know, you'll work towards a goal.

But I think just the creative, creating art together, helps people reach an understanding with each other.

<Mike> I do believe that.

It helps bring people from all sorts of cultures and demographics all come together.

You know, when you look at art, you're not looking at, oh, the Black guy did that one.

You're not concerned about that.

You're looking at the beauty of it.

You're looking at how it touches your soul.

And I think art is something that that breaks that divide, and brings everybody together.

And that's something that, you know, Chief Justice, Finney was always known for helping to bring and bridge that gap, and bringing cultures together.

And that's something that we do want to do, and that we're going to do at the Cultural Arts Center.

<Amanda> And of course, Justice Finney's daughter is here on the faculty.

And so I'm sure that she's going to be, help coming up with wonderful creative ideas as well.

And I want, when things get started, maybe you'd let me come in, I'm not much of an artist, but I would like to let my inner soul come out, and interact with some other people.

<Mike> I think that would be awesome.

<Amanda> And get to know you a little better as well.

<Mike> Right.

And I think the main concept is just what you said.

You know, you have this skill set, right, you have this knowledge base, and you want to be able to share it with others.

And that's exactly what we want to do.

Imagine everybody doing master classes, and we're finding masters within the community.

Anybody that is within these, artists can come and teach their expertise and pass it along to this next generation, you know, so that it isn't forgotten, because if I never heard of Pearl, would I still be doing topia?

I don't know.

I may have stopped and decided, you know, I'm just going to be a landscaper and I'm just gonna focus on this.

But once I heard of Pearl, I found my passion.

<Amanda> I want to thank you so much for coming and sharing this information and for sharing your talents with some people in a place where they need to get out more in the winter.

<Mike> Right.

< laughs > Exactly.

Exactly.

I appreciate.

Thanks for having me here.

And I'd be more welcome to come back and tell some more about topiary.

<Amanda> That'd be fun.

<Mike> Yeah, maybe next time, I'll trim a tree for you.

<Amanda> That'd be fun, too.

It's fun when you talk to Mike.

He said that when he was working in his home, which was farther, way up north, you didn't have to go in and trim things quite as much, because in the winter, plants went dormant and kinda stayed dormant.

And down here, it seems like things wanna grow all the time.

I was looking for a hat.

And there's a place I just love to see.

It's kind of a strip mall.

And they've got a pond in the front, a stormwater pond, Terasa.

And it's always got stuff growing in it.

I just love to see it.

And I went back and I saw this stuff in it.

So I stopped the car.

And I did not get my feet wet.

But I want you to know, it was very difficult to gather some of this stuff without getting my feet wet.

And we had fun this morning.

You were using one of those ID tools and what did you tell me that you think this yellow one is?

<Rob> We think it's Flat-Top Goldenrod.

<Amanda> And it looks so different from regular Goldenrod.

There's so many Goldenrods.

<Yes> But this one likes to be wet.

And I thought that was fun.

And then scarpa's is the kind of brownie thing in it wherever it is.

And, everything's kind of drooping.

And um, I see that a lot on the roadsides.

It just seems to love a wet area.

And I think it's a sedge, is that right?

<Terasa> That's right.

Similar, but a little bit different from grasses.

<Amanda> Yeah.

Sedges have edges.

I think that's what Dr. John used to tell us.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Anyway, so it was, you know, it's fun to think that here's this thing that was put in for one reason, and now it's a place where there are all these plants growing that otherwise wouldn't have the necessary environmental places that they need.

So there's stormwater ponds serve a lot of purposes, don't they?

<Terasa> they really do and I'm glad you brought that up.

I think there's a lot to be said for how we perceive our environment.

And so we might not think of plants around the edge of a stormwater pond as adding to the aesthetics of the area, but they really can.

<Amanda> Yeah, it was just beautiful.

I love to see it.

I love to see changes.

Well, Davis, I think you've got some more plants for us.

<Davis> I do have a few more here.

In keeping with the edible theme, and the colorful theme, did bring some Northern Lights Rainbow Chard, this is a Swiss Chard, that very cold hearty and it's also pretty heat tolerant.

So this is one that you keep going into well into summer.

It also has a slight shade tolerance.

I have an acquaintance who had this growing in her yard that was under high pines and it did fine <My goodness> You can use the old leaves, you can stew 'em or sautee 'em just like collards, Or just use the new growth for salads, baby greens.

Beautiful colors.

And just to offset that color a little bit, there are blends of pansies.

And of course, pansies can go into just into any edible containers as long as they get plenty of sun because the pansy flowers themselves are edible.

They got a sort of a lemony taste to them.

It's very interesting flavor, and it kind of freshens up a salad or a bowl of wintergreens.

<Amanda> And some people know how to crystallize them, and put them on cakes and things like that and that's a talent, but it needs to be kind of a a day when it's not excessively humid, I believe.

<Right> You have to find just the right day.

<David> Like baking bread.

<Amanda> Yeah.

Yeah.

You can't make bread on humid days?

<Davis> Well, it's not so much humidity as it is altitude.

You have to adjust everything for the altitude.

<Amanda> Oh.

I make bread all the time and I had no idea about that.

It's a good thing I didn't know.

< laughs > Well, thank you so much.

<Thank you> I really appreciate that.

Terasa, I think you got another question for us.

<Terasa> I sure do.

Grant from Elko had his soil tested, but is now having a problem understanding the report, it says I had my soil analyzed, but I don't understand.

Can you just tell me what to add to my soil?

<Amanda>: Well, first of all, kudos, kudos for getting his soil tested, because that means he's gonna, he has he knows what he should add and he won't just be dumping things spending money unnecessarily and perhaps having too much of something.

<Terasa> That's right.

Kinda like a prescription, right?

Or having having some blood work done.

<Amanda> Getting the pH.

right.

And so, Rob, take it from here and explain why, how he might make more sense of his results, and also about pH.

<Rob> Certainly, I'd be happy to Amanda.

So when you get your soil sample results, the first page, you've got the chart, the bar chart show indicating low medium sufficient levels.

Well, what do those actually mean?

Basically, what that is telling us is that in the example, it's on the I'm showing you, we've got low phosphorus levels.

That's telling me that the phosphorus supply in the soil may not be enough to support adequate or sufficient plant growth, telling me we may need to add a little bit more than we will do if we were in the medium or sufficient range.

If we were in the high range, then we wouldn't be applying any nutrients of that material, because we've got plenty in soil for adequate or sustainable plant growth.

So that's the easy way of basically interpreting the chart.

When you come through a little bit further down, particularly with recommendations from Clemson, we will actually have a set of recommendations that are usually listed at numerically, that may not relate to each crop.

So what I do is I tend to, <Amanda> Because you get to pick you can, when you submit it, you can ask for like roses, or grass, or several things.

So they're gonna give you all the suggestions, but they're going to come, they're not grouped when they come.

<Rob> Yeah, so they're not going to be grouped by that particular crop.

They're going to be grouped by the numeric representation description.

So what I tend to do is take a photocopy or print just that page, and I'll separate them out into the different numbers and put them on a separate sheet and created a cheat sheet for each particular crop.

So that could be roses, or my Centipede grass, for example.

I just find that makes life a little bit easier.

So I think that covers a place, there's a great sources of information within the H.G.I.C.

website and available on the phone, or through people like Calvin and myself within the local county offices.

And we're more than happy to help out, interpret the soil results so you get them absolutely right.

<Amanda> Well explain why pH is important because a lot of people just say, Well, I'm not, I don't even care about that.

I'm not going to make any effort to change it and I believe that at certain points on the pH scale, you can add up all the whatever it is you want to add and it may not be available to the plants?

<Rob> That's correct.

That's absolutely correct.

So, what happens with pH, every nutrient is a salt.

So those will dissolve in different pH and require different pHs to actually go into solution in the soil.

And that means basically that the plants can uptake the water or the solution with the nutrient in it.

<Okay> What happens at high pH, so that will be a pH of 7.5 to 12.

What happens there is calcium will actually start to lock up and react chemically reacts with those nutrients, precipitating them out of solution.

And what that means is basically, think about lime or thinking about limescale buildup in a kettle, okay.

That's a precipitate.

So high pH, we're going to lose the availability of things like manganese copper, to a certain degree phosphorus, and the more trace elements.

By lowering the pH, those become much more available, that can be a double edged sword.

So if we're looking at a neutral pH, that's pH six to pH seven, that's where most of our nutrients are available.

And I believe this chart, actually, on the screen, you'll see that the bars get thicker, indicating a greater degree of availability of those nutrients.

<Amanda> So at different places, one nutrient might be a lot more available than at six or seven.

But at six or seven, everybody's somewhat available.

<That's correct> And we need everybody to have a great crop.

<Rob> It's that balance.

<Amanda> Now, lime, some people, I mean, I've been looking at these things as they come back, and some people are told us to put out massive amounts of lime, and it's heavy.

So first of all, you got to get it home, and then you got to get it out.

And I don't believe you necessarily have to get it all out for it to work.

<Rob> Right.

That's correct.

What I do with my own yard, I've had to put out several tons of lime per acre.

So a lot of lime per square foot per 1000 square feet is that the recommendations would show, I tend to split that up.

And what I would do is do a third, fall, third and spring, retest the following fall to make sure we've got the effect and then apply the rest according to the remaining soil.

<Amanda> And I think farmers can do that, too because if they were ridding a field, they might not want to spend a massive amount of money to have the whole amount put out.

And then they you know, and then they can give some more more flexibility for in their economics.

<Rob> Yeah and certainly in a commercial situation, we'd probably look at putting the full amount out to get that effect quickly.

If we're renting situation, we need to be able to maximize the return from the crop.

So if our soil pH is not right, that's not going to provide sufficient nutrient, or the ideal growing environment for the particular crop.

<Amanda> And we've got, H.G.I.C.

tells you how to take a soil sample, and you can always call them if you're at the office doing something busy and helping somebody.

I just, the people up there are so helpful, and they will help you understand it, as well.

<Rob> I know the website's really good.

There's some great videos on there as well.

<Amanda> Thank you so much.

<Rob> My pleasure.

<Amanda> We sometimes, you know, people has been getting back into regular life and we get back in restaurants.

There's something that we learned about that make us, that should make us all feel a lot better.

And that's the ServSafe program.

I'm speaking with Faith Isreal and Faith as an extension agent like I am, but she's with the food Systems and Safety Program team.

And you do several things.

One is I think canning workshops.

<Faith> Correct.

I host canning workshops for those learning how to do water bath canning, pressure canning jams, and jellies and pickles.

<Amanda> And they don't have to be from one of the three counties you represent.

<Faith> They do not.

I have people that come all across the state to the classes, so is based off their availability.

<Amanda> All right.

But then another thing that has a lot to do with now that we can go out and feel more comfortable eating out is the ServSafe program.

<Yes> And so tell me what all that involves please.

<Faith> So I teach the ServSafe Food Protection Manager and Food Handlers course, where that is regulated by South Carolina DHEC were any food establishment has to have a Food Protection Manager on site during all operating hours.

<Amanda> Come on.

Even, I mean, so what if I go to a fast food restaurant?

<Faith> Yes, they should have someone who is certified in food safety with the ServSafe as well.

<Amanda> Now, is this what the A, B, C or D is based on exclusively?

Or is it a part of it?

<Faith> Not exclusively, but yes, it is a part of it.

So if you, if an inspector comes in, and there's not a manager on site that has that certification, then yes, you could lose some points on that grade.

<Amanda> So, is this something where they just come in and you show slides or do a PowerPoint?

Or is this a hands on process where they really experience what they're supposed to do to make sure that the food is safe and when it's repaired in the kitchen until you and I sit down and shake out our napkin and start to enjoy it?

<Faith> Okay, so our classes are a combination of both.

So it's instruction, there'e video, and then there's some lecture, and then we can also do some hands on activities as well to kind of bring those things to memory when that test comes.

<Oh> Yes, so they have to pass that test.

<Amanda> And I believe you said that the program with whom y'all coordinate is a national program.

So y'all don't grade the test.

<Faith> No, we do not grade the tests.

So those exams are taken and mailed off to Chicago where their company is, and they grade those and everyone received their results individually.

<Amanda> And you don't necessarily notice this sign when you walk in the restaurant, but when the inspectors come, they ask, they will say, who is your registered food, ServSafe food person who's here today during the shift, and they are supposed to have that person there.

<Faith> Right?

That is correct.

And then they also can display their certifications if they want to.

So it's very nice to see that up on the boards or near the menu boards when that you know, someone there is certified in learning how to make your food safe, so you can have a safe dining experience.

<Amanda> Well I want to thank you.

And so even though this is, cause F.D.A.

to DHEC once again, Clemson is there to make it easier for citizens to participate in and to get the information because after all, we're here to serve the people.

<Faith> Yes, we are.

<Amanda> Well, thank you.

I think that they're very fortunate that they get to come and take a class with you.

I knew I would enjoy it.

<Faith> All right, thank you for having me.

<Amanda> I want to thank Faith Isreal and all the food systems and safety team for the things they do to make sure that we have good, healthy, safe products to use when we're cooking and going out to eat, too.

Well, this is going to be fun, because everybody wants a beautiful container for fall and many people have smaller homes now.

And I think, Davis, you've told us about some things we can use.

And now we're going to see it in action.

<Davis> All sorts of containerized edibles here.

The first thing you need to do when you're making a container garden is to provide the proper receptacle for it.

Of course a pot first of all definitely needs good drainage.

You can see the drain holes here in the bottom I think and to help improve that drainage and perhaps create a little bit of dead airspace so the roots of the plants don't go down and clog up those drain holes, a lot of people use Styrofoam peanuts.

It's an excellent medium.

The only problem with these is that if you just dump them into the pot, like most people do, you can't recycle them.

You can't put your nutrients your potting soil into your compost heap.

When you go to repeat it, they go everywhere.

So what we're gonna do is we're just going to take these, we're gonna bag them up, we're gonna throw them out.

Instead, you can take a mesh laundry bag, or perhaps a media bag from a koi pond waterfall filter, <Amanda> Oh, so you can get that at a garden center.

<Davis> Right and just drop it right down into the bottom of the pot.

It fits down in there nice and snug.

And now you're ready to plant.

<Cool> So you take your potting soil, <Amanda> Now you have a potting soil that you really like to use for the fall.

<Davis> For the fall and winter planters, we like the the Foxfarm Happy Frog potting soil because it does not have any moisture retention characteristics other than the peat moss that's in it.

Most winter plants not only don't need much water, but with the cold temperatures that moisture is not going to evaporate out of the soil as readily, so soil might stay a little bit too wet.

And, that's certain death for most winter plants.

So we're going to take our potting soil, which is always a good idea to moisten the potting soil before you put it into the end of the pot.

But since we don't want to make too big a mess, we will just fill it up.

There are two ways that you can approach this also.

Once you've got the soil in the pot, you can either go ahead and start planting into it, <Amanda> And Carmen, I guess you have examined that to be sure that the roots aren't encircling or tight.

Thank you very much.

<Davis> Broken up nicely.

<Carmen> It's a beautiful specimen.

Lot of really great healthy little root little feeder roots.

<Okay> <Rob> The smell is amazing.

<Davis> It is.

And there are a couple of other approaches you can take when you're, when you're putting the plants in the container like Carmen has done.

You can just dump the soil in and start potting in it.

One of the things that I like to do is actually take the plants out of the container before I pot them up, and I put the container in the pot where it's going to be seated.

<Amanda> Come on!

Oh, to figure out how much you can get in.

<Davis> Well, it's not so much that as it is, it just makes it a lot easier to take the plants to fill the container with your soil.

<Amanda> Oh and see how much soil you need.

<Davis> And then just slip the, slip the pot out.

I've actually done this in commercial settings where I was at a restaurant potting up some window boxes.

And there were people eating right next to me.

So rather than having to scatter the dirt everywhere all around them, I did this and lifted them out and they were more fascinated with the way I set my pots than they were in the food they were eating.

<Amanda> the trailing pansies over there too.

<Yes> that'll be fun.

<Beautiful cool waves> <Davis> you can take the, take the larger plants out of the, out of the containers.

You just lift the containers out.

<Amanda> That's a clever idea.

<Davis> And you put the plants like so.

<Amanda> We're going to visit the winery where Terasa visited and then we'll come back and see how these beautiful pots, we hope beautiful pots, turnout.

♪ upbeat music ♪ ♪ <Terasa> Muscadine grapes are native to the southeast and the heart of the operation at Cartersville Country Winery.

I'm speaking with Carlos Norton, the wine master at the vineyard.

Carlos, thanks for having us out today to learn more about the process.

<Carlos> Yes, glad to have you.

This is definitely a work in progress.

<Terasa> Now, as I understand it, there's quite a long history here.

<Carlos> We started 12 years ago, Tom, which is like my adopted dad calls me and says I want to grow grapes and make wine.

And there was nothing here and we started off hand planting the first acre and now we have 18.

<Terasa> That is incredible.

Quite a growth over time.

Yes.

Now the process - Obviously, if you're producing wine, we're starting with Muscadine grapes.

And we grow the grapes and then harvest.

What is that process like?

<Carlos> It...takes four years to produce an acre of grapes to produce grapes <Terasa> Four years!

So, there's a lot of investment right there at the beginning.

<Carlos> Yes, and we started growing a great variety of Carlos grape.

And then we expanded from a Carlos to a Summit and a Noble, which is a red grape.

<Terasa> So you go three varieties, now?

<Carlos> Three varieties of grapes.

Over the years, we've had, we used to handpick.

Now, we actually have a harvester, which is a 1972 Chisholm-ryder harvester.

As you've seen today, he can go down a row in about four minutes.

We have several employees working there, the help our helpers.

<Terasa> That harvesting process is phenomenal.

It's something I had never seen before.

...it appears to me that the harvester is shaking, and that's what releases the grapes?

<Carlos> Correct.

Yes.

It has fingers on the inside that actually shakes the grapes.

And the ones just ready to come off will come off, and then they conveyor up to the top, which then goes to the side tractor that actually carries the beings.

<Terasa> So people are working together to make sure that this whole thing comes together and the grapes end up where they need to go?

<Carlos> Correct.

<Terasa> Now after we're finished harvesting, what's the next step in the process?

<Carlos> They'll transport the grapes from the field to the winery, and I will dump them into a big auger.

The auger actually goes from the auger to the crusher.

<Terasa> After the grapes are crushed, what happens next?

<Carlos> It is - once they go from the crusher, they'll go from the crusher to the press, then the press will actually press all the juice from the pulp, the holes, everything we can get juice from.

And once we go from there, it'll go into a fermentation tank.

<Terasa> Okay, so there's a lot of waste that's removed during that pressing process.

<Carlos> Yes.

<Terasa> What do you do with all of that?

<Carlos> it goes to like my chicken farmers to feed the chickens, just whatever it takes to help.

So it don't all go to waste.

<Terasa> Great!

...then you've got that nice clean juice.

<Carlos> Mm hmm.

<Terasa> Now, take us along, what's the next step?

<Carlos> Alright, it goes from the press to a fermentation tank.

It'll stay in my fermentation tank for seven days for the primary fermentation, and then we'll rack it which is moving the juice to cleaner juice to smaller containers, and then they'll stay for 30 days or so and then they'll be stabilized into wine.

<Terasa> Now once it's stabilized, can it sit indefinitely?

<Carlos> Not indefinitely, but it can sit for years.

Once it's there?

Once we go from where it's just sitting and we get ready to make a wine or bottle of wine, We'll put it in a cold stabilization for like two weeks and it really chills the wine and makes all the sediment go to the bottom.

And once it goes to the bottom, we'll filter it from the filter process, it goes straight into a tank ready for bottling.

<Terasa> ...and bottling, that's really the final step.

>> Yes.

>> How does that work?

It seems a little complicated.

>> We have two machines.

We have a manual, six bottle filler, and we have a automatic two bottle filler.

We, it's just a process of filling the bottles and capping.

We use a screw type cap that's pressed on by air and then an automatic labeler.

And then it goes from - <Terasa> So, we fill it.

We cap it, we label it <Carlos> ...then it's ready for stores.

<Terasa> That is incredible, in front, but a lot of that is a very manual process.

>> Yes.

So once it's bottled someone is hand putting that packing it into cases.

>> Yes.

>> And then putting those on a pallet.

<Carlos> Yes, taping it up, putting it on a pallet.

Ready...for the wine deliveries to go out.

<Terasa> So where does the wine get delivered?

>> All over South Carolina.

That's fantastic.

I am just blown away, especially that I just recently discovered that you've been here and you've been here for a number of years.

You make a few different varieties, some reds, some whites and then some fruit wines.

<Carlos> Our wine started off with our whites, our Moonlight Imagination.

It's our first one that ever come out, which is a sweet Muscadine.

It's used from a colorless grape.

Our reds are Lynches River Red.

It's made from a nobles grape, which is also a sweet.

We have drier wines and in some sweeter wines.

But Muscadine are naturally sweet.

<Terasa> That's quite a variety.

Now Muscadine or wines are naturally sweet, but you can control the sweetness by how much sugar is added?

<Carlos> Yes, well, you know, once you go through the fermentation process of adding yeast to sugar, the yeast burns all the sugar, which turns it into alcohol.

Then you have a dry wine.

So, you back sweeten the sugar to make the grape taste fluffy.

Add a little bit more sugar to make it sweeter, a little less sugar to make it drier.

That's how we come up with our Moonlight Imaginations, our two whites and our two reds.

Our fruit wines instead of using sugar to back sweeten it, use a concentrate, which is a fruity concentrate.

I already have the wine.

I'm just changing the flavor of the wine itself and it works.

<Terasa> So all of the fruit wines essentially have the same base and when you just change the flavor palate based on whatever.

<Carlos> Correct.

>> Okay, fascinating.

Not only is this an operating winery, but the property has more to offer.

<Carlos> Yes, we have.

We have weddings out here.

We have a wedding venue.

We have a building for smaller parties.

We have overnight accommodations, Airbnb, ...we have people who just come out and want to walk through the grapes.

<Terasa> I can understand why.

It's very peaceful out here.

<Carlos> Very peaceful.

<Terasa> Maybe not during harvesting times - You know, you got a little bit dirty already this morning, just in the process.

It has been incredibly fascinating, learning how we go from grapes in the field, to wine in a bottle.

I really appreciate the time you've spent with us.

And I'm sure others would like to know a little bit more.

What's the best way for people to find out about Cartersville Country Winery?

<Carlos> We have a Facebook page, of course we have a website, Cartersville Country Winery.

I mean they're welcome just to check us out.

Come out here and look.

Ask questions, whatever they would like to do.

<Terasa> A fascinating story about something that is certified South Carolina grown.

♪ <Amanda> It's wonderful to see people using added value to a crop like our wonderful South Carolina muscadines.

And look at the beautiful pots y'all have made.

They are just gorgeous.

Thank you all so much.

What great ideas for fall and Terasa, so thank you as always for being such an important part of the show.

<Terasa> My pleasure.

I might need to steal some of these ideas.

I love the idea of adding beauty but doing it in a way that's also functional.

<Amanda> Well, we'll say night, night and we hope you'll be with us next Tuesday right here on Making It Grow.

♪ closing music ♪ ♪ ♪ Making It Grow is brought to you in part by certified South Carolina is a cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture to help consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

The Boyd Foundation supporting outdoor recreational opportunities, the appreciation of wildlife, educational programs, and enhancing the quality of life in Columbia, South Carolina and the Midlands at large.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina.

Family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms