>> Some of the nation's most in need.

Families might face new changes to childcare head start as the federal program that provides early education and services to low-income children and families, including those experiencing homelessness.

And in foster care is facing deregulation by the Trump administration.

Conservatives say the changes could save money but advocates question at what cost?

Joining us to talk more about this are Lowrie, Morrison, Fractal executive director of Illinois Head Start Association and Ted Dabrowski.

President of Wire points.

independent nonprofit research and commentary organization focusing on Illinois's economy and government.

He also previously ran for Illinois governor in the Republican primary.

Welcome back.

Thanks to both for joining us.

Thanks, France.

So Lori, some of the specific proposals include shifting standards on education requirements and teacher student ratios to the states changing multiple program teeth brushing developmental screenings meeting with special needs, reducing caps on administrative costs to 5% and establishing physical activity requirements.

What's your reaction to those changes?

Well, that's a really hard.

>> it have critical impact on our children and families across the state, including removing those comprehensive services that make our head start programs so impactful directly for children and families like our mental health services, like all of our health, oral health services and increasing our class sizes leave less opportunity for children to have individualized services.

Just to remind us that we serve those most in need across the state.

So that means that either are the children families are homeless or in our foster care system or below the 100% of the federal poverty level so that their most in need and they need these wraparound comprehensive services such as mental health and health nutrition services.

>> you've called for more scrutiny and accountability on the head start program.

Tell us why.

>> Well, first of all, I want to make the point that for my understanding of the they're removing a lot of the requirements.

But that doesn't mean that those requirements can't be kept in place by by local local To the extent that those governments still are, those groups still want to keep tight.

A tight rein on on the rules they should?

No, I think I think for me the big thing in in this is not, of course, not just head start, but many government programs.

We're not seeing the results were expecting.

And and we're not holding those groups accountable.

And then we've lost accountability and not speak about intentions of speaking about the actual results because I know that chlorine others to do hard work to to, to care about people in need.

But I think what we're seeing is I think the head start.

We've got a lot of criticism for a lot of its benefits fading out by the time kids get to kindergarten.

Start first grade or second grader.

3rd grade.

And that's what I'm obsessed about.

When you look at like the reading and math scores that CPS you're talking about just one out of every 10 black children are Hispanic children reading a great leveler doing math at grade level of the national.

national test.

We have to figure that out because that to me is if we don't care about if we can't figure out literacy, we can do all the head start program to walk.

But if we don't figure out how to get accountability in our schools spending $32,000 a kid, I don't see we're wasting time, but we are wasting money and we haven't figured it out already say that I would like to expand and, you know, sure, let's get rid of the regulations and we can still do them right.

>> Regardless of whether they they are they are not.

But reality, the Indigo in the administration's own words, they're going to remove all of those comprehensive services and regain 2.2 billion dollars in this next fiscal year and increased the recapture those funds so that we can our children.

So we can't do the mental health services or those health services, Aurora health services because we won't have the funding to do that work.

We need investment in head start not decreasing the investment in expecting us to serve our children without additional funds.

So has a huge impact, direct services for children and families.

And I just want to remind us these are proposed rules and that, you know, the impact that removing these 90% of the standards we'll have on children and families directly not receiving the services because they're going to switch the needle.

And credit to serve more children.

So one of one of Ted's concerns, Lori Wind.

Then 10, I'm gonna come back to, of course, the one of Ted's concerns was whether or not the the benefits of the head start program was lasting far enough.

>> Was setting kids up for for better outcomes down the road.

Data shows that children are enrolled in head start are more likely to graduate high school and attend college.

I think the Secretary Kennedy said as much in in previous comments, but how do you think this change might impact those results if deregulated?

Well, for example, they say we can only teach in English and so majority are children are dual language learners.

And that's just one example of what these proposed regulations >> would do to children and families.

We know that research tell us that the language development done in both languages is critical for the child's success moving forward.

And so that's one concrete example of a loss and then to address the fade out effect.

So we know that our children come below their typical developing peer and it takes a lot of do sage intensive dosage to get our children on the same level.

And when they leave had start, we have them.

They're they're 98% ready for kindergarten.

Ready for life.

And so that's that's a great accomplishment.

But what we do know is our children are entering.

living in poverty in and train low performing school districts.

And so they need that extra dosage throughout their K 3.

3rd can't great system.

Intensive support isn't always existing.

Yeah.

Say once get to kindergarten, sounds to correct a yes.

how do you think the success of a students were enrolled in head start?

How should that be measured?

Well, let me say one thing.

First of I think it be great if if I were in favor you, for example.

>> Having more control over the funds would be phenomenal right in the eye.

You get to do what you think is best.

I have the the Fed Feds tell you what to do how should we measure?

I my my big issue is is that we don't measure graduation, for example, might be something sounds good.

But we were gradually a CPS.

We're graduating so many kids who can't read grade level who can do math grade level.

So graduation for me, taken almost no meaning anymore.

want to see dew on the standardized EVA standardized tests debatable, too.

But you look at the national standards, we should be dominating on those that's not happening.

But I think the bigger issue is and I think, you know, what you're trying to do is is like I said, great intentions, but forgotten about this discussion, a family.

We're talking about a lot of single on wed unwed mothers trying to raise children and you we know how difficult it is.

And the other many heroes who do well, but we know that intact families do so much better, especially the black families, a black family will make 3 times the income nearly 3 times the income of a single a single mother.

So we have to get back to talk about family and supporting families supporting marriage.

And then, of course, getting back to to the core literacy and Numeracy.

Ted, is it fair to say that the federal government should be responsible for setting the standards if this is a federal program?

>> Or it sounds like it.

Do you propose it no longer being a federal program?

Well, just doing well.

Yeah.

So well, you could could be be just a state program.

We have many programs in this.

The other problems.

We have so many programs, so many overlapping programs and a big critique of my many.

If heard me talk about this, is that and Chicago, we and Illinois were probably the most equity based social welfare driven states for that Nic in the country.

But if you look at Chicago, if you look at that 15 largest cities in the country.

The outcomes for blacks are horrible on poverty, on education, on on a plot, unemployment.

>> We're doing it all wrong and it takes I think it takes good meeting of the minds to figure how to a better because we shouldn't have the worst outcomes in the country when we spend so much money like its EPS.

>> Lori, what impact might that proposed changes have on the teachers and staff at Head Start rights?

So just visit what had said Headstart standards are the blueprint for success there based on best practices of what we know is good for children and families.

And I think a misconception is that there's not flexibility in the standards.

It's red, Cape bureaucratic.

And that's that's totally opposite of what it is.

And there is not one head start program across the state that looks the same.

They have the flexibility to implement and define the standards to fit their community.

It's driven by their community and the engagement of their community in the parents decide how to interpret those standards and provide those impact.

Pull services every day that they're there and the impact is going to be huge.

So imagine children that need those health services are oral health services where we're supporting them to get to the dentist, to tell their teeth taken care of.

We won't be able to do that because the funds will not be there.

be switched over to serve more kids and that the administration says this in their analysis of proposed rules we've got 30 seconds left.

The Trump administration has previously pushed for the elimination head.

Start from the budget.

Do you think that's an effective solution?

>> Well, I like we know we're all in trouble on spending, right?

Was Chicago's got its budget mess.

The state has this budget mess.

The U.S.

has this budget mess.

We're all in trouble.

We need to look get back to looking accountability.

>> And tell you why.

I'm so obsessed accountability, CPS low.

It did.

Illinois lowered state standards for education.

But this past year, instead of raising standards of demanding more, we lowered standards and you've got you got in California.

You've got professors begging for a CTA SAT scores to come back because they're getting kids coming to college who can't do middle school math.

This is this is a big problem.

That's where we'll have to leave it a problem that we're not going all have in these 10 minutes standards are so important.

>> Is to make sure remaining