>> Eric: THEY WOULD RATHER FIGHT THAN SWITCH TACTICS.

THAT'S WHAT SOME ARE SAYING ABOUT MPAAT, THE GRIP IN CHARGE OF SPENDING SOME OF THE WINDFALL FROM THE STATE'S SETTLEMENTS WITH BIG TOBACCO.

IN RECENT WEEKS, THEY'VE COME UNDER FIRE FROM THOSE WHO THINK IT SHOULD BE SPENDING MORE MONEY ON SMOKE ENGINE CESSATION PROGRAMS AND LESS ON PUSHING SMOKING BANS.

Dr.

JOE AN JOES RECEIVE IS A BOARDS MEMBER OF MPAT.

AND HERE IS MATT END TEN ZAVMENT LORI SWANSON JOINS US, MINNESOTA'S DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL AND WE WELCOME BACK RAY WALL DRIVEN, WHO HEADS THE MINNESOTA AFL/CIO.

Dr.

JOSEPH, LET'S START WITH YOU.

200 MILLION OR SO ISN'T IT FROM THE TOBACCO SETTLEMENTS THAT THE BOARD KIND OF DOLES OUT GRANTS FOR SMOKING -- ANTI-SMOKING RELATED PROGRAMS.

HOW DO YOU SEE THE PURPOSE OF THE BOARD AND HOW DO YOU SEE THE ACTION ON THE POLITICAL, LOCAL POLITICAL ACTIVITY BEING A PART OF THE BIG PICTURE HERE?

>> ONE ONE OF MPAVEMENT'S MAJOR RESPONSIBILITIES IS TO PROMOTE CESSATION FOR MINNESOTANS AND A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK OF CESSATION IN THE CLASSIC MODEL OF A SMOKER SITTING ACROSS THE TABLE FROM A PROVIDER THAT'S TRYING TO HELP THEM WITH THAT DIFFICULT PROCESS.

AND THAT IS A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF IT.

BUT IT'S EQUALLY IMPORTANT TO BRING PEOPLE TO THAT TABLE.

ONE OF THE MOST DIFFICULT THINGS WE HAVE IS MOTIVATING SMOKERS IN CREATING AN ENVIRONMENT THAT HELPS PEOPLE START TO TAKE ACTION TOWARDS QUITTING.

SO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE CESSATION ACTIVITIES THAT MPAT HAS UNDERTAKEN IS TO TRY TO PROMOTE THAT SORT OF SOCIAL CHANGE THAT WILL BRING PEOPLE TO QUITTING.

>> Eric: Mr.

PRESIDENT, THAT SOUNDS -- >> THAT SOUNDS WONDERFUL BUT THEY'RE NOT DOING THAT.

WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS SAYING YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SMOKE ANYMORE IN THIS COUNTY OR IN THIS BAR OR RESTAURANT AND I DON'T BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE THERE FOR.

>> Eric: WHAT'S YOUR OBJECTION TO THAT PARTICULAR ACTIVITY?

>> WELL, I THINK WE STILL HAVE CHOICE.

THE GOVERNOR A WEEK AGO SAID PEOPLE, WE'LL RAISE THE TAX, IF THEY DON'T LIKE IT, THEY CAN QUIT SMOKING.

THAT'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT STILL SMOKE.

>> Cathy: REPRESENTATIVE, WHY SHOULD PEOPLE GET INVOLVED?

>> YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER, THE LEGISLATURE AND THE GOVERNOR DO NOT CONTROL WHAT MPAT DOES.

OF THE MONEY THAT WAS SET ASIDE FOR TOBACCO, 3% OF THAT WAS GIVEN TO MPAT AND IS CONTROLLED BY THE COURT.

AND THE COURT'S GOING TO DECIDE HOW THAT WORKS.

NOW, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL WENT IN THIS WEEK AS DID THE MPAT BOARD AND ASKED THE COURT TO REVIEW WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS APPROPRIATE TO DO THAT.

AND THE LEGISLATURE COULD PASS ALL THE BILLS IT WANTS TO DO SAYING IT SHOULDN'T DO IT BUT THINGS WERE SET UP TO SORT OF TAKE IT OUT OF THE POLITICAL PROCESS.

>> Cathy: DO YOU THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE FOR THEM TO LOBBY ON BEHALF OF SMOKING BANS?

>> I THINK YOU HAVE TO HAVE A BALANCE.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE A BALANCE OF SMOKING CESSATION, SECONDHAND SMOKE IS A SERIOUS ISSUE AND YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT.

THE CONCERNS THAT HAVE BEEN RAISED IS IS THE BAM CORRECT AND ONE OF THE THINGS -- IS THE BALANCE CORRECT.

WE HAVE OTHER POTS OF MONEY OUT THERE THAT THE LEGISLATURE DOES HAVE CONTROL OVER AND THAT MIGHT HELP MAKE IT EASIER FOR PEOPLE.

>> Eric: WHY DID THE ATTORNEY GENERAL PUSH THIS?

>> WE GOT ABOUT 100 COMPLAINTS FROM MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC FROM THE AFL/CIO, TO CHAMBERS OF COMMERCE, TO CITY OFFICIALS QUESTIONING THE WAY IN WHICH MPAT WAS SPENDING MONEY ON POLITICAL -- THE RAMSEY COUNTY DISTRICT COURT CREATED MPAT AND THE ORIGINAL THEORY WAS TO SPEND MONEY ON RESEARCH AND SMOKING SESSION SAYING.

I THINK MPAT AND OUR OFFICE AGREED AGREED IT MADE SENSE TO GO BACK TO THE COURT AND CLARIFY THE OBLIGATIONS, RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES.

>> I THINK MPAT REALLY WELCOMES THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THIS DISCUSSION.

WE DO LOOK FORWARD BOTH TO PRESENTING OUR STRATEGIC PLAN TO THE COURT AND TO THE LEGISLATURE AND TO THE PUBLIC SO THAT IT CAN BE BETTER UNDERSTOOD.

THE NOTION HERE REALLY ISN'T TO GO OUT AND INFILTRATE COMMUNITIES IN MINNESOTA.

COMMUNITIES AND COMMUNITY ORGANIZATIONS HAVE COME TO MPAT AND REQUESTED FUNDING, AND THIS IS A GIVE AND A TAKE PROCESS BUT WE THINK THAT'S AN APPROPRIATE USE OF THE MONEY.

[TALKING AT THE SAME TIME] >> DID YOU HAVE A GRANT BEFORE THEM?

>> WE HAD TWO GRANTS BEFORE THEM.

THE SECOND ONE THAT THEY DIDN'T ACT ON OF COURSE IS THE MINNESOTA NURSE'S ASSOCIATION, SO -- AND NOBODY UNDERSTANDS WHY THEY WERE DENIED.

>> WELL, IF I CAN JUST CORRECT THAT, THAT ONE HAS NOT BEEN DENIED YET.

WE HAVE DELAYED OUR CURRENT ROUND OF GRANTS IN RESPONSE TO THE DEBATE GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

>> FIRST GRANTS WAS DENIED WITHOUT ANY REASON.

WE'VE MET SINCE THEN, WILL CONTINUE TO MEAL AND HOPEFULLY GET THE GRANT ON THAT.

>> WE ARE REALLY LOOKING -- I THINK THAT -- >> NOW THE DELAY -- >> IMPORTANT FOR -- >> DOES NOT HELP -- >> I'M SURE THE DELAY DOESN'T HELP.

WE ARE VERY MUCH, THOUGH, LOOKING FORWARD TO WORKING WITH THE UNIONS.

AS YOU KNOW, THERE'S A HIGHER PREVALENCE OF SMOKING IN BLUE COLLAR WORKERS.

WE THINK THIS IS A REALLY APPROPRIATE PLACE FOR US TO PUT OUR EFFORT AND WE ARE ON THE ROAD TO DOING THAT.

>> EVERYTHING WE'VE DONE, WE'VE HAD IT TO OUR CONVERGES HAD IT TO WASHINGTON, D.C., THE INTERNATIONAL UNION, TOBACCO UNION, APPROVES THIS GOAL SO WE WANT TO GET STARTED ON IT BUT WE'VE BEEN TOLD NO.

>> Eric: WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE THE JUDGE -- WHOA ARE YOU HOPING THE JUDGE DOES, MAKE A RULING SAY YES OR NO OR CLARIFY GUIDELINES OR WHAT WILL HIS HONOR OR HER HONOR DO HERE?

HIS HONOR.

>> WHAT WE'RE ASKING THE COURT TO DO IS CLARIFY THE ORIGINAL COURT ORDER.

THE COURT ORDER CREATED THAT THE MONEY WOULD BE SPENT ON EDUCATION AND RESEARCH AND THE ISSUE IS REALLY CLARIFYING THE RESPONSIBILITIES AND THE RIGHTS IN TERMS OF WHAT IS THE APPROPRIATE WAY TO SPEND THESE MONIES AND IS SPENDING IT ON POLITICAL ACTIVITY SOMETHING CONSISTENT WITH THE COURT ORDER.

>> DO YOU THINK THIS GOES BACK TO THE LEGISLATURE?

COME BACK TO THE LEGISLATURE IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM?

>> CATHY, THERE'S NO QUESTION IT WILL COME BACK TO THE LEGISLATURE IN ONE SHAPE OR FORM.

THIS IS ULTIMATELY A POLITICAL DEBATE THAT THE LEGISLATURE IS GOING TO WANT TO INVOLVE ITSELF IN AND HERE'S WHY.

WE HAVE A HUGE DEFICIT, WE HAVE A BIG TOBACCO ENDOWMENT OUT THERE AND EVEN THOUGH THE LEGISLATURE CAN'T TOUCH THIS 3% THAT'S BEEN SET ASIDE FOR MPAT, THIS FUELS THE DEBATE ABOUT HOW SHOULD THAT ENDOWMENT BE USED.

NOW, 75% IS ALREADY BEING USED FOR GENERAL FUND PURPOSES BUT SOME HAS BEEN -- 12% HAS BEEN SET ASIDE FORTH UNIVERSITY, A COUPLE OTHERS FOR SMALL FUNDS.

THE QUESTION IS, IF THE USE IS -- IF UNIONS AREN'T BEING MET THROUGH MPAT, THEN THERE WILL BE A LOT OF PRESSURE TO FIND OTHER MONEY IN OTHER PARTS OF THE ENDOWMENT.

>> I WONDER IF PART OF THE PROBLEM IS SMOKING CESSATION CLASSES AND NICOTINE PATCHES AND THOSE SORTS OF THINGS THAT A COMMON PERSON WOULD SAY THAT'S AN ANTISMOKING CAMPAIGN VERSUS SPENDING MONEY FOR RADIO ADS OR WHATEVER.

THERE'S NATURAL FRICTION IN A POLITICAL EFFORT.

HAVE YOU LOST SOME GOODWILL THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE HAD IF YOU'D BEEN DOING THE MORE TRADITIONAL SMOKING CESSATION STUFF?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT SMOKING, TRADITIONAL SMOKING CESSATION IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE THERE ARE SMOKERS OUT THERE AND IT ALSO IS AN EASY MESSAGE TO UNDERSTAND AND OBVIOUSLY SOME OF THESE OTHER CAMPAIGN ISSUES ARE MORE COMPLEX, AND LESS INTUITIVE, BUT THEY ARE EQUALLY IMPORTANT.

WHEN WE LOOK AT OTHER STATES AROUND THE COUNTRY, AND WHERE THERE HAS BEEN SUCCESS IN BOTH REDUCING SMOKING, THE PREVALENCE OF SMOKING AND THE AMOUNT OF SMOKING RELATED DISEASE, IT HAS BEEN CRITICAL TO INVOLVE SMOKE-FREE CAMPAIGNS.

>> Eric: ARE YOUR WORKERS DIVIDED ON THIS?

I SUPPOSE THERE IS A JOBS ISSUE BUT I WONDER IF SOME MIGHT SAY I DON'T LIKE THE SECONDHAND SMOKE AT THE BAR WHERE I WORK.

>> VERY MUCH SO, VERY MUCH SO DIVIDED ON THIS.

BUT THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF THEM SAY I STILL HAVE A CHOICE.

>> Cathy: WHAT WAS YOUR PROGRAM WHAT YOU WERE TRYING TO GET MONEY FOR, WHAT WOULD IT HAVE DONE SPECIFICALLY?

>> WELL, WE HAVE TWO GROUPS, THE PACE INTERNATIONAL UNION AND THE INTERNATIONAL BROTHERHOOD OF ELECTRICAL WORKERS.

WE'RE GOING TO WORK WITH ALL THE AFL/CIO UNIONS OF MINNESOTA, ABOUT 1100 OF THEM, SO HOW THEY WERE GOING TO DO THAT I'M NOT QUITE SURE.

BURT THEY HAD THE ENCOURAGEMENT AND RECOMMENDATIONS FROM NATIONAL UNIONS AT THE LOCAL LEVEL, TOO, TO WORK WITH THEM.

>> Eric: DOES THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, HE'S HAD ANOTHER -- I THINK HE'S BRINGING BACK ANOTHER HEALTH RELATED AGENDA TO THE 2002 LEGISLATIVE SESSION, IS HE SATISFIED WITH THE WAY THE DISCRETIONARY MONEY IS BEING SPENT, ENDOWMENTS AND SO FORTH?

DOES HE LIKE THE REST OF THE WAY THE PROGRAM IS GOING?

>> YOU KNOW, THAT'S REALLY NOT AN ISSUE THAT I'VE SPOKEN TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL ABOUT OR THAT WE'VE GOTTEN INTO.

OUR ISSUE RIGHT NOW IS SIMPLY THE ONE OF GETTING THE COURT CLARIFICATION.

WE'VE GOT WHAT ESSENTIALLY AMOUNTS TO STATE MONEY IN AN ORGANIZATION AND THE ISSUE IS WHETHER THAT STATE MONEY OUGHT TO BE SPENT ON POLITICAL ACTIVITY.

THAT'S THE ISSUE WE'RE FOLK DUSTING ON.

>> WE RECENTLY HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THE COURT DOCUMENT AND I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS VERY CLEAR IN THERE IS THAT IN THE SECTION ON CESSATION, THEY SPECIFICALLY INDICATE THAT COMMUNITY ORGANIZATION AND CHANGING SOCIAL NORMS IS PART OF OUR CHARGE, AND SO I THINK THE BOARD IN REVIEWING THIS GOT SOME AFFIRMATION OF THAT.

>> Eric: WILL THERE BE A HEARING OR WILL HE TAKE JUST WRITTEN STUFF OR WHAT'S THE RULE HERE?

>> I THINK THERE WILL BE A HEARING.

IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE COURT WILL SCHEDULE A HEARING FOR SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE.

WE EXPECT A LOT OF PARTIES WILL WANT TO INTERVENE WITH COMMENTS.

>> AND I THINK PART OF IT IS WE'LL SEE HOW MUCH OF THIS WINDS UP TO BE ACADEMIC.

IF THE POLITICIANS START USING THIS MONEY FOR DEFICIT REDUCTION, THE POLITICIANS MIGHT USE IT AND I THINK THAT WOULD BE A BIG LOSS.

WIFING TO KEEP THE TOBACCO ENDOWMENT AVAILABLE FOR UNIONS AND OTHER PURPOSES.

>> Eric: TOPIC FOR ANOTHER SHOW.

THANK YOU FOR COMING DOWN.

THANKS A LOT.