Hello and welcome to The Bookmark.

I'm Christine Brown, your host.

Today my guest is Jennifer Bristol, author of "Wild Women for Good: Stories of in Texas."

"Wild Women for Good: Stories of in Texas."

Jen, thank you so much for coming back today.

Well, thanks for having me.

It's a pleasure to be here.

I'm really excited to talk about this book that is just chock full of wonderful stories of real women in our state who've done wonderful things.

of real women in our state who've done wonderful things.

Can you just introduce the book to us to start?

Sure, yeah.

It has a quite a long history.

And I have to give credit where credit is due.

The idea for the book came from my mom.

All the way back in 2009, All the way back in 2009, when we were hiking at Bastrop State Park, where I was a park ranger.

And, she said, you know, I wish there was a book about women in conservation.

I had no idea how to write a book at that time.

And, so she wasn't thinking that I would write this.

And, so she wasn't thinking that I would write this.

But we just kind of kept coming back to the concept, and, But we just kind of kept coming back to the concept, and, and finally we were like, yeah, let's do that.

and finally we were like, yeah, let's do that.

And so, yeah, it was a cool project to work on with her.

Yeah.

And, you know, it's, And, you know, it's, you know, we spent a lot of time during Covid, working on this, so.

Yeah, that's where the idea came from.

And this is a departure from your.

We've had you on the show before for some birding books, and I believe you also helped out a chapter in your dad's book about the history of state parks.

So this is quite a departure for for your writing.

So this is quite a departure for for your writing.

It is.

Yeah, very different style.

To, you know, the, the birding books are kind of easy.

You, you show up and you look at what birds are there, and you think, yeah, this is a good birding location.

I'll put it in the book.

This, you know, really took a lot more research.

This, you know, really took a lot more research.

And, and my mom, that was her strong suit.

And, with doing all the research.

And, with doing all the research.

And then we also ask everybody, And then we also ask everybody, who was in the book, who what else would you recommend?

So we were constantly getting new advice on who should be in it.

getting new advice on who should be in it.

And, not everybody that they recommended made it in there, but we certainly researched them and looked at them, to see how they might fit.

So, yeah, it was very different.

I was joking, the other day with a friend that, I was joking, the other day with a friend that, you know, sometimes, when I was writing it, I might be working on it all day long, but maybe only got a paragraph done working on it all day long, but maybe only got a paragraph done because that paragraph represented so much reading and research and, you know, trying to conceptualize, like, how does all this fit together to tell that story?

And at the end of the day, I would look back and I'd be like, only kind of paragraph nine.

And yeah, so quite different.

But still within the conservation themes, which is near and dear to my heart, especially here in Texas.

And that was one of the themes too.

You know, in Texas, we do conservation a little differently.

With only 6% public lands.

We have to we have to look at things, with a different lens.

And the women in this book certainly championed, that different lens.

I do want to ask about the research because you mentioned, you know, much different kind.

But also some of these people, as you say, are still living and they can recommend other people, just reading their stories from my point of view was was fun and you can see their personalities and all that, but I imagine going and actually interviewing them was one of the better parts of doing the research.

So fun.

It's so fun.

And, so, yes, you know, it was And, so, yes, you know, it was it was a lot of the interviews I did with my mom.

She came along and they knew each other, you know, through through various, conservation efforts.

you know, through through various, conservation efforts.

And when I went back and listened to the interviews later And when I went back and listened to the interviews later and I was running it through, a system to try to get the transcripts out, a system to try to get the transcripts out, it was having a hard time a the clearly, I does not understand southern women.

And b we were laughing so much in a lot of the interviews that it was having a hard time picking up what we were actually saying.

And, so I had to go back in and, and tweak those quite a bit, but we did.

We had a lot of fun.

But I will tell you two, it was a little intimidating, because to, to write about these women, because to, to write about these women, who are our contemporaries and, and get their story right and, and then have them read it later, you know, I mean, they're pretty powerful ladies.

And, I, I was a little intimidated, you know, And, I, I was a little intimidated, you know, but I did send it to them so they could have a look and make sure that, they approved it before I put it in the book.

But no, it was it was a lot of fun.

I got to know some incredible women, who, I got to know some incredible women, who, you know, I think back on and how much I've just learned from their story, and, you know, you, you you go to somebody and you think you know their story as you're going into it for the interview.

But what they reveal and what they tell you and what they're most proud of sometimes wasn't and what they're most proud of sometimes wasn't what we were thinking about at all.

So that was a really cool sort of, you know, aspect that we, retrieve from each one of those interviews.

aspect that we, retrieve from each one of those interviews.

I like that I would this is kind of biographical in that you're getting these little, then you have to have everyone.

But it's it's nice to have that included because you can look at the good work they've done.

But then when you hear, oh, they were going through this and they were dealing with that, it just makes the good work even more impressive to see it just makes the good work even more impressive to see these lives that they were leading, that were having difficulties, or they were coming up against this struggle.

Or are all those things kind of contextualize in the book?

Or are all those things kind of contextualize in the book?

Yeah.

And that was something that, I'm glad you picked up on that, because that was something that, was really, I wanted to make sure that I, I told that part of the story I wanted to make sure that I, I told that part of the story because, you know, when I, when I started this project, because, you know, when I, when I started this project, with any book project, I asked myself, why am I doing this?

You know, what's the purpose of this book for me?

And, and I, I kept coming back to this one word, which was inspire.

I wanted to inspire others to read these stories I wanted to inspire others to read these stories and have them see themselves in these stories and be able to go, you know what?

If she had three children and a job and a busy life, but she got all this done, and a job and a busy life, but she got all this done, why can't I, you know, or.

Oh, gosh, you know, I really relate to the challenges that she was going through.

And that that would hopefully make, you know.

Oh, okay.

Well, she did that.

I can too.

And, yeah, I mean, some of these women, And, yeah, I mean, some of these women, you know, I, I'm blown away by how much they were able to accomplish, with also having jobs and kids and family and, to accomplish, with also having jobs and kids and family and, you know, parents that needed help and, you know, all the things that we that we deal with, on a, on a daily basis, as people, especially as women, a, on a daily basis, as people, especially as women, so I'm glad that that you saw that in there.

I also to to draw on that there are women who were born wealthy or were not women who loved the outdoors from day one, or who came to it a little bit later.

It's very relatable.

If you're not an outdoors person, maybe you like certain aspects of it.

There are women in here like that.

If you've always been outdoors hunting and fishing and going outside, well, there are women in here like that too.

There's there's just a wonderful variety.

It's true.

And, and that was, you know, something we were very intentional about was, you know, it would be easy to kind of just go, you know, towards one, you know, one type of person.

But we wanted to be able to tell, you know, all of these different, aspects, and, all of these different, aspects, and, you know, the other part of the book, you know, we want obviously primary is to celebrate these women tell their stories.

primary is to celebrate these women tell their stories.

But the secondary objective of the book was to tell the whole story of conservation.

And so when you start looking at how does conservation And so when you start looking at how does conservation flow through all of our, you know, all these different, parts of our lives and what does that look like?

parts of our lives and what does that look like?

Then you start getting this great tapestry of people, that are working on it in a way that's meaningful to them.

that are working on it in a way that's meaningful to them.

And, and that's what I hope also kind of resonates is that, And, and that's what I hope also kind of resonates is that, you know, we can all do something that's meaningful to ourselves.

we can all do something that's meaningful to ourselves.

Absolutely.

In small ways, big ways, whatever ways we we are able to.

Yeah.

So this book, of course, has names you're going to be familiar with Lady Bird Johnson, Laura Bush.

And if you're into conservation spaces, you might have heard names like, Hershey and, Ellen Temple.

But then there are maybe names that you've never heard of either.

How do you go about picking who who you profiles?

How do you go about picking who who you profiles?

Picking was hard.

I gotta be honest.

You know, again, we we sort of had our themes early on.

You know, again, we we sort of had our themes early on.

And so we, we knew that there were certain buckets that we wanted everybody, you know, to sort of fall into and, and we were looking again for that, variety of thought, variety of age.

variety of thought, variety of age.

How do all these components also kind of elevate the next person, on the journey of that?

Cause, and so picking was really difficult Cause, and so picking was really difficult because a lot of women, maybe their, their backgrounds are similar, their stories are similar.

their backgrounds are similar, their stories are similar.

Their time and age are similar.

And so, yeah, it was difficult to, you know, to say, okay, well, this one wins out over this one, to make it in the book.

But again, it really just, you know, it came down to how did it flow within the story, to help, you know, sort of, be an example, you know, sort of, be an example, like the best example or one of the best examples like the best example or one of the best examples of, of that type of leadership and that type of conservation.

So, and we and like I said, we we really asked, So, and we and like I said, we we really asked, we asked, you know, a huge variety of people within the conservation community of who they would recommend.

community of who they would recommend.

So we pulled the audience quite a bit.

And that, you know, that kind of help guide us.

Sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They're going to be your best.

Your best experts.

Yeah.

On the subject.

Yeah.

Did you notice any any kind of common themes or threads or personality types, as you were gathering these women's stories?

Yeah, definitely.

So, and that was really fascinating.

I mean, there was a couple that we already kind of, you know, themes that we sort of had a concept of that we just in our own lives experience as conservationists and, and, women working in this, in this, and operating, in this, field.

But, from, even from the older generation that we, that we interviewed all the way up until, that we, that we interviewed all the way up until, you know, the, the women that are, really just kind of entering into the field, women don't see themselves as leaders.

entering into the field, women don't see themselves as leaders.

And especially in this field, they work more as a tetrahedron, and a collaborator.

as a tetrahedron, and a collaborator.

And it's so cause driven that it's, it's not about their ego or advancing themselves.

It is all about the cause and, and achieving It is all about the cause and, and achieving whether it's, you know, the Big Thicket National Preserve, or, you know, conserving, certain species or, you know, conserving, certain species or, you know, stopping a giant polluter.

It doesn't matter.

It's about that and not themselves.

And so that was really interesting.

And then, you know, the other thing, too, is that it is about future generations.

It is very rarely, again, about what we're doing today only impacts today.

It is always what's next?

How are we building this for the future?

How does this impact our kids or grandkids, their kids, you know, and so that was a really a beautiful theme and so that was a really a beautiful theme that came through in all the interviews.

And then even even in the, in the articles of the, And then even even in the, in the articles of the, the older women who have passed, reading about them and a lot of them wrote articles.

And so you have their firsthand, you know, and it always mentions future generations.

you know, and it always mentions future generations.

I want to let's dig in as much as we can.

Yeah.

This is a very large it's larger.

It's a it's a good size hefty.

It's got a lot of great stuff.

I do want to say though, it's not when we talk about I do want to say though, it's not when we talk about it's a long span.

It's not.

We start at the beginning of time and we work through, We start at the beginning of time and we work through, you've you've broken it up into kind of like thematic sections.

So chapter one is about birds.

And then we have gardens.

And so with thematically it makes more sense.

And you're getting a little, a little bit of history and up to modern in each section, which is great as a reader because you can, you can find the one that interests you most and maybe read that one, and then maybe a couple years later, if you've gotten into birding, you can get into the brain, you know, it's it's it's easy to, to read in that way.

you know, it's it's it's easy to, to read in that way.

Yeah.

So I'm a, I'm a theme thinker.

You know, I, and that's how I view history.

You know, that's just how my brain sort of break things down, and, I really didn't want it to be where you picked up the book and you had to read it from start to finish.

Like, I wanted you to be able to open it to whatever chapter that you wanted and that had meaning to you on that day, and gravitate towards that.

and gravitate towards that.

But each chapter does take you to the beginning of, that point of conservation.

you to the beginning of, that point of conservation.

So, for example, you mentioned saving the birds.

So, for example, you mentioned saving the birds.

That was the very first conservation, effort in Texas.

Certainly one of the big ones, even in the United States, Certainly one of the big ones, even in the United States, but, in Texas, because, that's where the birds were being harvested was especially down on the coast in Galveston.

harvested was especially down on the coast in Galveston.

And, there's there's two early women in there, And, there's there's two early women in there, young women, 17 and 23 years old, who started the first Audubon chapter in Texas and one of the very first in the United States.

And and they were really, you know, And and they were really, you know, driving to stop the millinery trade.

driving to stop the millinery trade.

And, and unfortunately, one of them passed away in the, the Great Hurricane in 1900 and never got to see the fruition.

The other one lived on and lived a full, life and was able to see things like, the Migratory Bird Act passed, and, you know, some of the other early laws leading up to that.

And so then that chapter goes all the way through to where are we now, you know, what are we doing now?

In, in Texas, for conservation, whether it's In, in Texas, for conservation, whether it's Houston Audubon or state park systems, Houston Audubon or state park systems, they all play a role, in, in that conservation.

So, you know, I try to take it from the beginning So, you know, I try to take it from the beginning all the way to sort of where are we now again for that specific cause?

Sure.

And that that chapter specifically because I love I love birding, you see, specifically because I love I love birding, you see, let's save the birds and then how can we look at the birds.

Let's let's increase our bird tourism and then develop trails to know where to go to see.

I mean, you have these women who are some of IT experts but not recognized as such until somebody gets down there and goes, oh, wait, you know what you're talking about.

Yeah.

That's true, it's true.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And, you know, one of those people who, is is, alive and with us today, you know, really helped start the World Birding Centers down in, in the Rio Grande Valley.

Birding Centers down in, in the Rio Grande Valley.

She did the great Texas Birding Classic, the birding trails.

You know, I mean, you know, but she I mean, she became a birder, but she was really about nature tourism.

How do you get people outdoors?

And that was her focus.

And, and birds, you know, are the wildlife that are around us all the time.

And so she really focused, you know, and on that.

So, and she was really fun to interview, I bet I bet, So, and she was really fun to interview, I bet I bet, I also want to talk about state parks because women have a long history of being influential, because women have a long history of being influential, in the development and the starting of state parks.

in the development and the starting of state parks.

It's true.

Yeah.

So, in 1923, when, governor, then, governor Pat Neff, was choosing who he wanted to be on the state park board, the first state park board, to be on the state park board, the first state park board, he looked to the Federation of Women's Clubs he looked to the Federation of Women's Clubs and who were the who were the really top leaders in that that were focused on conservation.

in that that were focused on conservation.

And two women, were already writing about it.

They were writing passionately about how we need to conserve Texas and that we should be proud of the nature within Texas.

and that we should be proud of the nature within Texas.

And, and so he he chose them.

There's another woman, Katie Welder, who's down in Victoria, There's another woman, Katie Welder, who's down in Victoria, who was also an incredible leader within the Federation of Women's Clubs.

She came from a ranching background and wanting to conserve the heritage of the land.

and wanting to conserve the heritage of the land.

And so they, you know, they came at it with sort of different views of what should happen.

with sort of different views of what should happen.

But he chose them because he knew that they were leaders.

But he chose them because he knew that they were leaders.

And, you know, they'd only had the vote at that point for a few years.

And, and he saw how much they were able to push that along.

they were able to push that along.

You know, that agenda along.

And that was what's great about the Federation of Women's Clubs.

It was it was a training ground for how do you be political?

How do you, you know, how do you operate within How do you, you know, how do you operate within this the sphere.

And and they had, you know, I mean, they were the first conservationists.

They had committees on everything.

And, whether it was birds and, And, whether it was birds and, you know, flowers, they had a conservation, you know, flowers, they had a conservation, committee, Parks and Playgrounds was another one.

committee, Parks and Playgrounds was another one.

And so that's where he drew them from.

But their secret weapon wasn't on the on the state parks board.

But their secret weapon wasn't on the on the state parks board.

She was just a volunteer.

But she loved parks, and she loved getting kids outdoors.

But she loved parks, and she loved getting kids outdoors.

And, and so she became sort of their lobbyist before And, and so she became sort of their lobbyist before there was a lobbyist, in this in this way, for, for nature, there was a lobbyist, in this in this way, for, for nature, and was down in the state capitol, you know, probably even as much as, the people on the state park board to get this passed.

So to, to get the state park system passed.

So, yeah, they were incredibly influential writing letters, you know, talking, to their communities.

you know, talking, to their communities.

It never left their mind.

And part of the reason was because it was tied to roads.

And part of the reason was because it was tied to roads.

And a lot of these women that lived in the rural communities, And a lot of these women that lived in the rural communities, they wanted good roads and they wanted especially good roads to get schoolchildren and they wanted especially good roads to get schoolchildren to their schools.

And so they saw all of these things going together.

And so they saw all of these things going together.

And it worked.

And it worked.

The one to me what another theme is, is that these early women, these early pioneers in this field, is that these early women, these early pioneers in this field, the foresight they had to understand the importance of things like there was one I, I can't remember her name.

She was worried about cats, house cats being outside and decimated, which is still a problem that we're all discussing today.

So, you know, these are not old fashioned ideas.

They were ahead of their of their time and thought, talking about there's a whole chapter on water rights and, and water conservation, and this has always been and will continue to be a very important subject.

But people have been working on it.

Women have been fighting for it for years.

Yeah, for over 100 years.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's true.

You know, and one of their seems to is, is, you know, conserving the family farm, the family ranch, you know, conserving the family farm, the family ranch, you know, that was an early, you know, concern, you know, that was an early, you know, concern, continues to be in our early, you know, our concern today, I think, Texas, was a Texas Agricultural Land Trust has a, I think, Texas, was a Texas Agricultural Land Trust has a, statistic out that we lose 800 over 800 acres per day.

statistic out that we lose 800 over 800 acres per day.

And, to development.

And, you know, when you have that level, you know, conserving these spaces becomes, you know, you know, conserving these spaces becomes, you know, more, you know, something that we just have to focus on, you know, constantly.

We can't take our eye off the ball.

I want to talk more about, the clubs.

The garden clubs were another vital piece, The garden clubs were another vital piece, which I think could be kind of thought.

I mean, if you didn't know about it.

Oh, it's kind of frivolous or just gardening, but this was another another kind of ground where they were gathering.

They're talking.

They're learning from each other.

They were really doing work, you know, in their communities in that way.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And I loved some of the letters that I, that I wrote.

You could tell that the Garden Club was really just like the, the nice front that they were putting up, you know, for their husbands or their fathers or whatever.

up, you know, for their husbands or their fathers or whatever.

And even their kids, you know, like, oh, I got to go to Garden club meeting.

But what they were doing at those meetings was, was really, you know, going to be some, some pretty interesting policy and, and, and again, that foresight, to what they were going at, and, and again, that foresight, to what they were going at, they weren't talking about orchids that they might have at the end of the meeting that, you know, they were they were talking about, quite a bit more, and from the early days, in the 1920s, and from the early days, in the 1920s, they were very focused, especially on having they were very focused, especially on having the outdoors look like native Texas.

the outdoors look like native Texas.

And that was something that was very important to them.

They wrote passionately about it.

And at the time when they were building new highways, there would just be a big scar.

And there was, you know, the highway department, And there was, you know, the highway department, which was county by county at that point which was county by county at that point would just leave it like that.

And think nature would kind of come back.

And they they were like, no, we need to like, we need a plant there.

And, they have this thing for the centennial of Texas that they wanted red, white and blue.

So they wanted redbud bluebonnets.

And I forgot what the white flower was, but they wanted those, you know, throughout.

And of course, that later evolves into the Highway Beautification Act, later evolves into the Highway Beautification Act, which then Lady Bird Johnson moves forward, with that.

But that theme was there, and it came from them, you know, and and they were they were driving policy to again, it was a side by side organization that's training these women, you know, how to how to use their voice, how to feel empowered, how to how to use their voice, how to feel empowered, you know, to get out there and make a difference.

you know, to get out there and make a difference.

And when you have, you know, I think they had like 50,000 members at one point, in there they had like 50,000 members at one point, in there and, and you, you know, put the word out, hey, we need a letter on this topic, you know, and all of a sudden, you know, you're a state representative or a senator and you have thousands of letters hitting, you know, that.

and you have thousands of letters hitting, you know, that.

You listen, you know, that's your constituents.

Yeah.

I do want to draw out there was something in the book and you you said the word beautification.

I think it was Lady Bird Johnson, but there was discussion about how they couldn't call it conservation.

It was a little more palatable coming from the ladies who say, oh, we just want to beautify.

We want to beautify.

But they knew we're really trying to conserve.

But if we say it this way, sounds a little more appropriate.

Completely.

Yeah.

And that really bothered Lady Bird Johnson.

She really got tripped up on that because she wanted to do She really got tripped up on that because she wanted to do environmental policy.

She wanted to do conservation, but it wasn't right for because that was still considered the man's world.

that was still considered the man's world.

And so, you know, they they it was the, task force for, beautification.

it was the, task force for, beautification.

And, she really hated that term, but it was so important.

It was so important because it was palatable.

And, again, if those ladies had gone to the meeting and, and told their husbands, hey, we're going to have a meeting tonight, against the billboard industry, a meeting tonight, against the billboard industry, it wouldn't have gone over quite as well.

But if I'm going to my garden club meeting and we're talking about beautifying highways, that's super palatable.

And so, you know, they had to sort of hide it in that a little bit.

you know, they had to sort of hide it in that a little bit.

There was another word, that was used a lot early on, There was another word, that was used a lot early on, which is save.

So to beautify and to save.

We're kind of the two phrases, that, that you see again and again, especially in the early work, because to save was also something that a woman should and could be doing.

I'm going to save this for future generations.

Oh, that's worthy.

You should be doing that.

And and so that was a theme that you saw a lot, a lot of their campaigns were, you know, a lot of their campaigns were, you know, Save the Wild Basin or Save the birds or save the turtles or, you know, it's like save, save, save.

Really using the word conserve, or preserve, Really using the word conserve, or preserve, which is another, word that gets tripped up a lot.

which is another, word that gets tripped up a lot.

You know, there's a short period of time where the word environment is used, then it stops being used, you know?

So there's words really matter.

And especially as you're trying to kind of, have it, And especially as you're trying to kind of, have it, have it come from a voice that isn't, the norm.

You know, they're not the power players.

At the Capitol, at the, you know, at your community leadership.

And so they had to have had to sort of be a little more stealthy with how they got things through.

Unfortunately, we're we're getting close to the end here.

I hate this.

This is such a wonderful topic.

There's so many more things in the book that we're not going to get to cover water rights, land working lands and preserving those.

water rights, land working lands and preserving those.

There's even a section on, you know, artists and poets and just every kind of work that a woman can do to conserve or save, is in this book, that a woman can do to conserve or save, is in this book, so I'm going to ask you to end it in our final two minutes.

so I'm going to ask you to end it in our final two minutes.

What would you hope people take away from the book?

Yeah, that's a great question.

So, you know, I think I think it kind of said it earlier a little bit with, you know, we can all do something that's meaningful to ourselves, to conserve the world that that's meaningful to ourselves, to conserve the world that that we that we know and love our natural world.

And it doesn't have to be a great scale.

You don't have to be a policymaker.

You don't have to be, you know, have, give $1 million, to, you know, a park or something.

million, to, you know, a park or something.

You can show up, you can volunteer, you can, you know, write a letter.

You can do something that's meaningful to you on that day.

You can do something that's meaningful to you on that day.

But, there's a couple women that I interviewed in the book, and they said, you know, once you get conservation in your blood, it never goes away.

in your blood, it never goes away.

And so I hope that others feel inspired, and I hope, I hope that they latch on to it in that way, too, that they, wake up and they think, okay, I'm going to do something that's meaningful to me today.

I think if I can speak for somebody who's read the book, you've done a wonderful job.

It makes me want to do something and know that my small something is is enough is is going to is going to make some, some good happen.

enough is is going to is going to make some, some good happen.

Well, I can't thank you enough for for writing this book for coming to talk about it.

It's a, it's a really exciting, and beautiful, beautiful, inspirational piece of work.

and beautiful, beautiful, inspirational piece of work.

Thank you, I appreciate that.

Oh, that is unfortunately, all the time we have for today.

The book, again, is Wild Women for Good by Jennifer Bristol.

The book, again, is Wild Women for Good by Jennifer Bristol.

Thank you so much for joining us and I will see you again soon.

Thank you so much for joining us and I will see you again soon.