salvi

EXCERPT #4 FROM THE PSYCHIATRIC INTERVIEW


DR. RESNICK: SO, THAT'S THE REASON--SO, WHEN I ASK YOU THE QUESTION--WHEN YOU SAY, "I DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE TRIAL; I DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS," AND I TRY AND SAY, "WHY DON'T YOU?" I'M LOOKING TO SEE IF YOU HAVE RATIONAL REASONS OR IRRATIONAL REASONS. AND, OF COURSE, YOU'RE DECLINING TO DISCUSS THE REASONS. AND THAT LEAVES ME IN THIS UNCERTAINTY TO TRY AND CONSULT WITH YOUR ATTORNEYS AND SAY WHAT I RECOMMEND HERE, BECAUSE YOU'RE SIMPLY NOT GIVING ME A CLUE AS TO WHY. SO, IN OTHER WORDS, EVEN WITHOUT THE REVEALING THE INFORMATION YOU DON'T WANT TO REVEAL, YOU COULD SAY WELL, I WON'T REVEAL IT FOR REASONS A AND B, OR X AND Y, EVEN WITHOUT REVEALING IT. DO YOU UNDERSTAND? I'D APPRECIATE UNDERSTANDING WHY YOU DON'T WANT TO DISCUSS THOSE AREAS.

JOHN SALVI: And how...(inaudible) the judge going to rule one way or the other whether I'm competent or incompetent? Isn't it my right to have a trial? If an individual seeks a trial--


DR. RESNICK: BUT, NOT IF YOU'RE NOT COMPETENT. SEE, LET ME EXPLAIN THE BACKGROUND FOR THIS. SEE, IN OLDEN TIMES IN ENGLAND THEY HAD A TRIAL IN ABSTENTION. THAT IS, IF A PERSON WAS PHYSICALLY NOT THERE THEY"D STILL HAVE A TRIAL. AND IF THEY EVER FOUND THE GUY, THEY'D SAY "YOU'RE CONVICTED." THEY DECIDED THAT WASN'T FAIR, THAT A PERSON PHYSICALLY HAD TO BE PRESENT TO TELL HIS SIDE OF THE STORY. NOW, IF SOMEONE WERE MENTALLY ILL, THEY'RE, SO TO SPEAK, NOT THERE MENTALLY AND, THEREFORE, COULDN'T GET A FAIR TRIAL. SO THOSE RULES THAT YOU HAVE TO BE COMPETENT IN ORDER TO GO TO TRIAL, IF YOU'RE TOO MENTALLY ILL TO FOLLOW THE TRIAL AND PAY ATTENTION TO IT AND BE ABLE TO COOPERATE, THEN THEY WOULD DEFER THE TRIAL UNTIL YOU'RE TREATED. THEN YOU COULD COME BACK AND BE A FULL PARTICIPANT IN YOUR TRIAL. THAT'S THE THEORY BEHIND IT. SO, THE ANSWER IS YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT HAVING YOUR RIGHT TO A FIFTH AMENDMENT. BUT, IF A JUDGE CONCLUDES THAT MENTAL ILLNESS IS INTERFERING IN YOUR ABILITY TO COOPERATE, HE COULD FIND YOU NOT COMPETENT. YOU'D GO TO A HOSPITAL, YOU'D BE TREATED, AND THEN COME BACK AND HAVE A TRIAL.

JOHN SALVI: ...(inaudible) that time period in the hospital?


DR. RESNICK: IT'S UNCERTAIN. IT COULD BE A MONTH, OR THREE MONTHS OR SIX MONTHS.

JOHN SALVI: For what reason would that be? You'd only be going to trial again eventually, unless proven insane.


DR. RESNICK: WELL, THE REASON IS TO BE SURE THAT YOU GOT A FAIR TRIAL WHERE YOU WERE A PARTICIPANT AND ABLE TO FULLY HELP IN YOUR OWN DEFENSE. IF A JUDGE CONCLUDES YOU'RE NOT ABLE TO HELP IN YOUR OWN DEFENSE BECAUSE OF MENTAL ILLNESS, THEN THAT'S NOT A FAIR TRIAL. SO, THE GOAL IS TO PRESERVE A FAIR TRIAL.

JOHN SALVI: In what reason would they think I was mentally ill? I don't have any past history of anything? No criminal record. Not even a driving record. Now, why would they assume I was mentally ill? I've never been to a psychiatrist, never been advised to a psychiatrist.


DR. RESNICK: THAT'S TRUE; THAT ALL FAVORS.

JOHN SALVI: Never even been to a consultation before. There's no reason anyone would think I was insane. I've never acted insane, or carried myself in an insane way. Why would they think I was insane?


DR. RESNICK: WELL, I'LL BE VERY FRANK WITH YOU HERE.

JOHN SALVI: Why would they think I was incompetent?


DR. RESNICK: YOU DO HAVE SOME--

JOHN SALVI: What proof could they bring forward to say this individual is incompetent? Silence is not proof. If I...(inaudible) the whole thing, that's not incompetent. Does that mean you're crazy, though? That's called a Fifth Amendment right.


DR. RESNICK: OKAY, LET ME ANSWER YOUR QUESTION BECAUSE YOU'RE ASKING ME. YOU DO HAVE SOME UNUSUAL IDEAS ABOUT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. AND IF IT WERE CONCLUDED THAT THOSE WERE DELUSIONS ABOUT CATHOLIC CURRENCY AND SO FORTH, THAT COULD BE VIEWED AS EVIDENCE OF MENTAL ILLNESS.

JOHN SALVI: So what you are saying is you're going to try to bring this tape against me in court.


DR. RESNICK: NO.

JOHN SALVI: For the prosecution to the jusge to prove that I'm incompetent because of what I've said.


DR. RESNICK: NO.

JOHN SALVI: Any individual who had any common sense at all would take what I said with a lot of grains of salt.


DR. RESNICK: FIRST OF ALL, I'M WORKING WITH YOUR DEFENSE TEAM. YOUR DEFENSE TEAM WILL VIEW THIS TAPE. IF THIS TAPE IS UNHELPFUL TO YOU THEN WHAT THEY DO STRATEGICALLY IS IN YOUR BEST INTEREST; THEY DON'T NEED TO SHOW IT TO ANYONE.

JOHN SALVI: Exactly. As far as I'm concerned, this tape should not go past my attorneys, which is what I was to understand.


DR. RESNICK: THAT IS CORRECT, UNLESS THEY THINK IT'S IN YOUR INTEREST TO BRING TO COURT, IT WILL NOT BE BROUGHT TO COURT.

JOHN SALVI: Right. Unless we think, in my interest, that it's best.


DR. RESNICK: SO DON'T TALK IN TERMS OF, NO ONE'S TALKING ABOUT PROSECUTION OR DOING ANYTHING AGAINST YOU. YOUR ATTORNEYS HAVE AN OBLIGATION, THOUGH, TO BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE COMPETENT TO STAND TRIAL. IF THEY THINK THAT YOU CAN'T COOPERATE, OR YOU TAKE AN IRRATIONAL--

JOHN SALVI: I don't want to keep, I don't want to keep going over the same thing.


DR. RESNICK: I JUST WANT TO EXPLAIN TO YOU, I KNOW YOU FEEL I'M BEING PERSISTENT, BUT IN OTHER AREAS I'M NOT.

JOHN SALVI: In some areas I'm happy that you are persistent, but in other areas I'm not.


DR. RESNICK: BUT I WANT TO EXPLAIN TO YOU WHY I'M BEING PERSISTENT, THAT IT'S A CRUCIAL QUESTION AS TO WHETHER YOUR DECLINING TO ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS IS RATIONALLY OR IRRATIONALLY BASED.

JOHN SALVI: It's my fifth amendment right. You're talking about one of my rights. That has nothing to do with competent or incompetent.


DR. RESNICK: NO, THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE WRONG. THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE WRONG. IT IS ONE OF YOUR RIGHTS. BUT IT, JUST AS THE EXAMPLE I GAVE YOU ABOUT THE PERSON THAT BELIEVED NO COURT HAD JURISDICTION OTHER THAN A HEAVENLY COURT, IF THAT PERSON WAS NO BASED IN REALITY ABOUT THEIR JEOPARDY, THAT WOULD BE A BASIS FOR THEIR INCOMPETENCE. THAT'S THE REALITY OF IT. DISCUSS IT WITH YOUR ATTORNEYS, BUT I'M TELLING YOU, THAT'S THE REALITY OF IT. SO THAT'S WHY THE REASON THAT YOU DECLINED TO ANSWER QUESTIONS IS A CRITICAL ONE. THUS FAR YOU'VE CHOSEN NO TO SHARE IT. BUT THAT'S A CRITICAL QUESTION WHICH NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED AT SOME POINT.

JOHN SALVI: Ok. We'll sit down with the attorneys. Mrs. Bassil and Mr. Carney. And we'll discuss this tape, which I would like to view.


DR. RESNICK: I HAVE NO OBJECTION TO THAT. THAT'S BETWEEN YOU AND YOUR ATTORNEY. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH IT.

JOHN SALVI: What time do you think that would be good to view this tape?


DR. RESNICK: OH, I DON'T, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT KIND OF FACILITIES THEY HAVE, PRIVATE FACILITIES THEY HAVE TO VIEW IT AND SO FORTH. MY GUESS IS THEY CAN PLAY IT BACK ON VHS.

JOHN SALVI: You said it wouldn't be a problem. I'd also like copies of that. I believe there's five thousand allotted to my attorneys for expenses. Well, I'd like copies of these tapes.


DR. RESNICK: I'M SURE YOUR ATTORNEYS WOULDN'T WANT THEM TO FALL INTO ANY HANDS BUT THEIR OWN. SO I...

JOHN SALVI: But I definitely want to see these. Definitely want to see this.


DR. RESNICK: IN MY OPINION MR. SALVI, THE CRITICAL QUESTION YOU NEED TO THINK ABOUT, AND IF YOU'RE NOT, YOU WANT TO TALK OVER WITH YOUR ATTORNEYS BEFORE YOU SAY ANYTHING MORE THAT'S FINE. I'M RESPECTFUL OF THAT. YOU NEED TO THINK HARD ABOUT THE REASONS YOU'RE DECLINING TO ANSWER CERTAIN QUESTIONS AND BE AWARE THAT YOU'RE LIMITING YOUR ATTORNEYS..

JOHN SALVI: Use reason..


DR. RESNICK: YES..

JOHN SALVI: In other words, use reason. Don't live without using reason. Don't live without using reason. There needs to be a reason for everything.


DR. RESNICK: RIGHT.

JOHN SALVI: There doesn't mean to be a reason for everything. And that doesn't mean you're insane if you don't have a reason.


DR. RESNICK: I'M NOT SAYING THAT MAKES YOU INSANE. I'M NOT SAYING IT MAKES YOU INSANE. WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT IF YOU DON'T ANSWER QUESTIONS FOR YOUR ATTORNEYS, AND THEY CAN'T PRESENT THE BEST DEFENSE, THAT MAY LEAD TO A FINDING OF INCOMPETENCY TO STAND TRIAL.

JOHN SALVI: Well, I'm telling you the truth. How many more questions do you have to ask?


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