Excerpt from Hale's sworn testimony in the Whitewater trial of Jim and
Susan McDougal and Governor Jim Guy Tucker pertaining to President Clinton's
knowledge of or involvement in the Susan McDougal loan. [As a witness for the
defense, President Clinton testified via videotape that he had never spoken to
David Hale or either of the McDougals about the $300,000 loan to Susan. ]
Q. All right. Any other way you could pin down as far as a time frame as to
when this conversation took place?
A. Sometime in January, February, sometime along--no, hold it. It was--yeah,
it was probably early January.
Q. Early January?
A. Early January or February, sometime in that period. It was before the
consummation of the Dean Paul loan.
Q. All right. And did you have an occasion then to travel to Castle Grande?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Can you tell the jury the circumstances under which you traveled to Castle
A. I received a call from Jim McDougal to meet he and Governor Clinton at the
Castle Grande office after work on--to talk about getting their loan ready and
consummated, and we met at the Castle Grande office, in Jim's office.
Q. Can you stop for a second. Do you remember the time of the day that it
A. It was dark. I don't remember what time of day it was.
Q. Do you remember what the weather was like or anything?
A. Pretty chilly.
Q. Was anyone else present?
A. I did not see anybody. I don't know whether--
Q. Well, when you arrived, did you notice any cars in the parking lot?
A. Jim's Jaguar was there.
Q. Okay. Any other cars?
A. I don't remember. If there was, I don't remember.
Q. All right. What happened then once you arrived?
A. I went in and Jim and the Governor were standing and were basically cussing
Frank White and talking politics and this sort of thing, just general
conversation that you'd have around two politicians anytime when they're
A. And we visited a minute, visited about cars a minute, and then Jim said we
ought to get our business done. So we sat down and Jim said, "You know, what
I want to do is, we're going to put this in Susan's advertising company."
Q. Put what?
A. Put the loan.
Q. Okay. Which is a conversation then about a loan?
A. Yes, sir. It was about a loan for Jim and the Governor.
Q. All right. And had there been an amount mentioned?
A. Yes, $150,000. Jim had told me previously that the amount was--they needed
Q. All right. Had there been any statement concerning specific uses or needs
for this $150,000 made to you before this time?
A. No, sir.
-------End of Excerpt
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