Q: We talked a lot about the civil case and what happened there. What
happened on the criminal side?
Anthony: ...Mr. Anderson, [Hopkins]... and a former state Senator were
indicted for obstruction of justice and for the bribery counts. The whole US
Attorney's office in Oklahoma City was removed from the criminal trial a few
months before we were to go to trial, and that had a disruptive effect.
...You know, Mr. Anderson just delivered the money. He didn't do it for his
own benefit. He was representing clients that had multi-million dollar cases
before our Commission. What about them?
Q: Any question in your mind that there was some heavy duty Justice
Department-style politics being played with the US Attorney's Office here?
Anthony: I have to wonder if the lack of an outcome to some of these
criminal matters was influenced from the White House. You had Mack McLarty who
had an interest in hoping these things would all go away. You had the Clintons
come into office, and immediately ask for the resignation of every US Attorney
across the United States, [which] had the effect of removing the US Attorney in
Oklahoma at that time.
And you had Webster Hubbell who went over to the Justice Department and was,
in effect, running things even before, and maybe a little bit after Janet Reno
was there. So, did Mack McLarty have an opportunity to tell his Arkansas
friend, Webster Hubbell, that it sure would be nice if things kind of died down
in Oklahoma? I don't know. I just know that some of the higher ups, even some
of them who pled the Fifth Amendment, never got indicted or prosecuted.
Q: Why should people in the rest of America care about what happened here
Anthony: Well, I think that there's something particularly deplorable
about public corruption. Not only is it illegal activity and all of us should
be opposed as good citizens to criminal activity, but it erodes the confidence
of the people of America in democracy.
Q: Maybe Nora Lum just got lucky.
Anthony: ...[You] have a sophisticated natural gas utility, and you have
two of the largest producers of natural gas and transporters of gas in the
state of Oklahoma -- sophisticated people on both sides. What do they need a
middleman named Nora Lum [for]? She didn't perform any service that they
couldn't have done on their own and saved the $19 million dollars.
...I think she was there because she fronted a transaction, and because
somebody wanted to do some multi-million dollar profiteering along the
way....She fronted a transaction in the name of Dynamic Energy Resources that
benefited [Arkla and ONG]...and that benefited Mack McLarty and helped him deal
with the skeletons in his closet...
Q: Where did that $19 million go?
ANTHONY: The $19 million of the Dynamic transaction, $9 million of it
went to purchase Creek Systems, and to give the owners of Creek Systems some
money so they'd drop their lawsuits and sign confidentiality agreements.
The other $10 million was a profit. And so if you owned 5% of the
stock, like Ron Brown's son did, you made 5% of $10 million; that's $500,000.
And Nora Lum, who started with 70% personally cleared $4, or $5 or $6 million
dollars on the transaction. Now, she was giving it away to people associated
with the Commerce Department, but she had plenty left over for herself.