Q: Did you ever meet Ron Brown?
Q: Did you ever speak to him?
McAdams: No, not directly, no.
Q: When was the first time you heard his name?
McAdams: Right there when I was introduced to Nora and Gene. Then I
heard it several times after that.....John Tisdale never mentioned his name.
It's just that Gene told me that Tisdale was very tied in with the Clintons and
with Ron Brown.
...You really knew something big was happening here. You realized that the
implications of the ONG investigation and what was coming out in that must go
to a lot of powerful people. And I had heard of some connections to an
individual in the White House, not the President, but another individual, I had
heard that before. And so, you realized there was some pretty deep water here.
Q: Did these folks appear to be saviors at all because they saved the
company from going down the drain?
McAdams: That's a good question because you had mixed feelings about it. You
weren't sure where they were headed.
...[We] knew they got a good contract with ONG, so that was a plus because ONG
is a large gas buyer in the state and anybody [who's] got a good contract with
them is going to last for years. But to think that Nora and Gene and Stuart
[were] really dedicated to this proposition, no.
...[Gene] was in and out. Nora had plans, she was in and out. Stuart was not
a person who was going to sit in an office every day and run the details of a
company. He's going to be out wheeling and dealing and doing something else.
Q: What happened once the sale closed at the end of 1993?
McAdams: ...[Me] and John moved all the furniture up to the third floor
of the State Bank Building, which is owned by the Wal-Mart family [and] where
...Stuart had some offices arranged...The transition was a little bit
stressful, just because you're changing offices and you're changing employers.
Stuart Price -- His personality and mine started rubbing each other raw pretty
fast...He'll nitpick you over 10 cents, and he'll spend $1 million on
something. Like we were fighting over the copy machine. The thing wouldn't
work and he wants us to make copies. Well, get us another copy machine, Stuart.
The big argument that we had, that I still laugh about, [was] over $125 for the
tires on my company car...We were sitting there in his office and I said,
"Stuart, you owe me $125." He said, "I can't afford it." I said, "You can
afford it." And that's when we got in an argument over the contract. I said,
"I know what you're making in this company. I know how you're doing it." He
said, "No, you don't." I said, "Yeah, I do." He said, "Well, tell me." I
said, "No, you'll get mad." He said, "No, tell me."
So I told him...about the deal they cut with ONG and stuff, and he got
mad...They like to keep that part of the deal very quiet. I guess they thought
we were really just naive and didn't understand that that pipeline is not why
they bought this...but...that's the facade Stuart...wanted us to believe.
Q: Did you get phone calls from Washington?
... [A phone call from] Melinda Yee is the one I took that was the only one
relating to Ron Brown. And then a Michael Brown would call -- I took several
phone calls from him. I took one that was [former presidential adviser George]
Stephanopoulos, [who] wanted to talk to Stuart....Stephanopoulos would talk to
Stuart a lot, or Stuart would call him.
Q: Did you get calls from the White House?
McAdams: One time-- Kathy Nojima took it, and it was from the White
House because Stuart was supposed to go up there for some advisory committee he
was on...Now who it was, I don't know. But I just know that Stuart had to fly
up there to a meeting.
Q: Why do you think Nora, a woman who claimed to work for Ron Brown, would
want to own an oil pipeline company?
McAdams: The only thing I could see was the ONG contract. If you could
get it for 10, 15 years and make good money off of it, then it was worth it.
You'd pay yourself back many times over.
Q: Tell us what happened when a local radio station broke the story about
the Lums and Stuart being involved in Oklahoma politics.
McAdams: It basically talked about Nora and Gene Lum and Stuart Price
trying to influence Oklahoma politics and [who they] were.
...[Nora] was in tears. Stuart was up, he was mad, and they left.....I think
Kathy Nojima was standing there, and she just made a general
announcement:..."Well, Stuart is going to be going to Washington, D.C."
Q: How did you finally part with the company?
McAdams: ...Stuart kept telling me I didn't know anything. That kind of
ticked me off....So I wrote a document telling him about what I believed I knew
about Nora and Stuart and Gene and the whole mess,...and I walked it over to
ONG's office and left it with John Gabarino, their attorney.
...I told an individual, I said, "You watch when this hits, old Stuart is
going to get it, and he's going to be mad." And then Kitchens calls me at home
and says, " ... Stuart called and he is hot." He said, "You're not to come
back to the office. You won't even come up here and get your stuff." And he
says, "He wants a copy of that." And he asked me for it. I told him I
wouldn't give it to him... I was basically fired.
Within about three to four days Stuart calls me....He's real nice,...[and] he
said, "Mike, let's talk. Let's just all get together and smooth this thing
out." I said, "No, I don't want to come back to work for you." He said, "No,
no, no...Now, we need to work all this out. It's all fine." I said, "Stuart,
I'm tired of being involved in this, and I'm tired of you, and I'm tired of
everybody." So, that's it. I was out.
Q: Why should anyone care about this little oil and gas company?
McAdams: Let me tell you a question that [was] asked me about two years
ago. They said, "McAdams, where do you think the money is coming from [for]
this or any other deal like this that's going on in this country?" I said,
"It's got to be from the Far East." He said, "Why?" I said, "Well, because of
the Lums' situation."
Gene tells me he flies around to Hong Kong with the Department of Commerce, and
you see these Oriental names calling up here to the office....[You] had a gut
feeling that there has to be a lot of Far East influence coming in here....
...I wish I could sit up there and go "Eh, no big deal. What's the sale
of a little gas company to people?" But it's much bigger than that.
...[There's a strange occurrence that happened.] When Clinton landed in
Honolulu for a war memorial thing, ...the Honolulu Star Bulletin printed that
first article I ever saw and it quoted me and John in there. And John calls my
house, and...he says, "McAdams," he said, "Kathy Nojima called, apparently from
Honolulu, and is saying that [I've] got to discredit anything [you] say." ...I
said, "Well, are you going to do it?" He said, "No, I'm not going to do it."
....John was told...Bill Clinton was very upset with the Lums, had really
chewed [them out] because these ex-Dynamic [Energy Resources] employees were
...This thing is so corrupt and so big, everybody is wanting to keep secrets
quiet. Everybody's got secrets.
Q: As a result of all this, do you know anything now about politics that
you didn't know before?
McAdams: Money and power is not worth lying [for].
....I don't like people trying to say the one thing and do another. That's
probably what upsets me about Gene and Nora a little bit....[To] think that
people that come across that nice are going ahead and lying about stuff...and
getting involved in activities that we don't need in this country.
I don't care which party is doing it, we don't need it....