A: A bunch -- mood swings, night sweats, insomnia, fatigue, joint and muscle pain, blurred vision -- burning urination, diarrhea, short term memory loss -- I'm trying to remember them all -- the rashes, fungus on the toenails -- like, my big toe is being eaten away by this old fungus thing. Gosh, there's just so many.

Q: What about cancer?

A: I think there's three strong types of cancers. It's melanoma, lymphoma, and testicular is one of the other cancers that is killing a lot of the Persian Gulf vets... There's about 57, 50- -- I think there's 57 to 60 symptoms that they -- there used to be just 50 symptoms which like in '93 I matched 47 of 50 symptoms, but now they've raised it up more because there's so much abnormality going on with us -- it's like a Persian Gulf veteran can wake up one day and feel good enough, like me.

I was in a wheelchair for years and -- for a couple of years anyway -- I still use a cane for long -- long distance walking or like in the mall or stores or something. I have to use my cane, I'm a high fall risk and with bad feet I walk with a wide gait. Around the house here from -- you know I can use walls or doorways to get through, I don't have a problem with that, but I know like Colonel Smith, for instance, a good friend of mine, I have his permission to talk about him any time I want -- he has days he'll call me, he's chipper, he's up, he's fed the dogs and you know he's ready to start the day, but because we feel good some days we overdo it so the next day --

Like tomorrow I probably won't do anything. I'll probably just sit, relax, watch TV or something like that because I'm doing this today and I've got some things I have to do yet -- later tonight, but when we feel good and you're up and everything, you overdo it because you want to be that old human being that you were again. Every time I go to Washington, like the five days I spent out there a couple of weeks ago, that just killed me. For like a week, I just laid around, my feet were swollen, I was hurting.

Q: So why do you think that a lot of Gulf War veterans with Gulf War Syndrome -- some are worse than others? Why do some have different symptoms than others?

A: Well, medically speaking I don't know. I mean I'm not a scientist or a doctor. My opinion of what I've learned and what I've talked to doctors about and stuff is everybody's immune systems are different, everybody's amount of exposures were different. Some people took pills, some didn't. Some got shots, some didn't. Some was at Khamasiyah and many weren't. You know I think it depends on your personal structure...

Q: What is your response to the Presidential Advisory Committee's conclusion that the unexplained symptoms of Gulf War veterans are most likely due to stress?

A: What I respond to the Presidential Advisory Committee's conclusion, both in the interim report and the final addition, of most of symptoms being caused by stress basically, phooey on them. You don't have five members of your own committee come out behind the chairman's back and say they don't agree with that that they believe that there's more to it than just stress. I'm much more enlightened by the final conclusion than the interim report since they are suggesting that the investigation be taken away from the Pentagon and put into somebody else's hands. That's quite exciting. I'd like to see the Pentagon stripped of all doings with this issue.

If the Presidential Advisory Committee wants to blame some of this on stress, I think they have to right to because they've seen a lot of stress. In two years, they have seen nothing but stressful veterans getting up there and testifying, but I come back to the Presidential Advisory Committee -- Ed Berris testified about his son dying, Carolyn Berris testified about her husband dying. Not one person on that committee asked questions. If I could have got up there, I would told 'em shame on all of you. You know, you don't have a man come up here in tears testifying that his son has just died in December of cancer and you don't have one question for him? You don't have a young beautiful woman, this -- I mean she was gorgeous -- get up there and testify about her young husband dying in December and not ask a question. You know, if they want to say it's stress, we can say that they're part of that stress.

We're tired of misrepresentation of the truth and the PAC, the members of the PAC that -- like Dr. Lashoff -- I asked Dr. Lashoff in Detroit, or in Chicago when I testified in July of last year -- I said "you're a doctor, why don't you examine a few of us?" She says "well, I can't do that." "Why not?" Don't even give a conclusion if you don't know all the answers.

Don't tell us that it's stress, if you can't tell us that it's something else. There's no doubt in my mind that stress can cause some problems. I'm dealing with it right now. When I was in my marriage I think that stress made some of my symptoms worse, like maybe my diarrhea, my vomiting, my hives and my rashes and stuff. I think stress caused that worse. I don't think it's what gave it to me, but I think it made it worse because now that I'm away from her and I have less stress the rashes aren't re-occurring as much, my vomiting and diarrhea has subsided quite a bit. So I can believe and I will give 'em that some stress can make things worse, but it's not the cause of our illnesses. How does stress cause brain damage with scarring? How does it cause chemical sensitivity? I believe, if I'm right, one of the most stressful jobs in this country is air traffic controllers. How come air traffic controllers don't have the same illnesses we do? How come policemen who face battle every day throughout this whole country, why aren't they complaining that they have chronic fatigue syndrome, brain damage, colon damage, stomach damage, chemical sensitivity, cancer, fungus on their feet, rashes? You don't hear that. That's stress. Those are stressful jobs. ....

Q: Tell me what you did to get other people to understand that something in the Gulf was making you and others sick.

A: Well, basically just by the phone, by television and the internet. I created a web page and tried to put as much information on there as I possibly could. I have tried to network with many other veterans, I've tried to -- you know through national media exposure, that was one of the best. How we got it to England was I've done two documentaries -- two or three documentaries over there and I've done quite a few up in Canada and that's what we were actually reaching out for and I've got a message on my answering machine now from some Japanese guy. He wants to do an interview for Japan television -- but that's basically because we've offered our help to Japan. We said if you give us the information of why only 13 died and 5,000 were sick, we'll let you know what we know about saran and everything, but just networking, phone calls, hours and hours and hours of on the phone and interviews.

Q: How much time do you spend everyday, or per week?

A: Well, it used to be hours. I mean just from the time I woke up until the time I'd go to bed at night I was on the computer, but going through what I'm going through now which was held against me -- they said I was too much hours on the computer and not enough with the children -- I've broke it down to where about Monday, Wednesday and Friday I work on the issue all day. Days that I don't have the kids, I'm on it all day, all night. I'm on my web page and I'm a co-commander of a chat room from about midnight to 4:30 in the morning I'm on that and then during the days when I do everything else. I've been doing a lot of public appearances lately here locally, like an Honorary Grand Marshall of a parade on July 4th, and a I was a guest speaker at an air show in Alcart, and I've been trying to do a lot of things like that 'cause I've spread myself out so far nationally that I've kind of neglected some of the local things that I was supposed to be doing around here.

Q: Tell me, how did you get the congressmen to listen to you? Congressmen and senators.

A: Well, the first phone call I made to Fred Upton -- it wasn't a problem. I mean he said you're my constituent, he actually did what a congressman is supposed to do. We put him in office to help us, I had a concern, and boom, he helped and he still is helping today. Same thing with Senator Reigle. Once I had their attention, I think their friends that sit on you know in chairs and committees and in congress, I think they probably said well, if they believe, then we must believe him too. One thing that helped me was '93 testifying in both the House and the Senate that day. Like Joe Kennedy, when I went to meet him a couple of weeks ago, I mean he walked in, he's like "Brian" you know, "how ya doin'." Liza Mianus, the woman that I'm working with over there, has like her investigator -- she's kinda like my liaison, I'm a liaison for the vets for him. She went over to Lane Evans just to see -- 'cause she gets a lot of paranoid theory in there -- so she went over to Lane Evans on the committee and says "hey, I got this guy named Brian Martin I just met with" and they're like "oh, yeah" you know "he's testified to us before" and Lane Evans goes "how's he doing" because I meet with a lot of Lane Evans's staffers around here since he's from Chicago.

Q: Congress members and the senators -- do they rely on you a lot for information?

A: They rely on all of us. I mean if there's something that I don't know, I'll find it out. You know. Somebody out there that I work with or network with.

Q: Do you feel a bit used?

A: No, not at all. I believe this is the way the American system should work. Constituents have a concern, they call their congressman, their congressman helps them, and if it's a long going concern, then the congressman sticks with 'em. Like Congressman Shays one time -- it was right after they admitted to Khamasiyah, I was on the Today Show, and I had just flown in from New York and the phone was ringing. And it was Congressman Shays. He says "Brian can you be here in four hours to testify?", and I told him "I'd love to sir, but you know there's just absolutely no way. I just got in from New York, I'm tired, there's no way I could make it to DC and testify for what you want to put me through", and he says "well, hold on, I'm gonna call you in a half an hour---

And I got a call back and on the speaker phone, he goes "the committee is in here right now Brian", he goes "everybody say hi to Brian" and they're like "hi, hi" and all that and I'm trying to remember okay, "hi, Congressman Tolins, hi Congressman Sanders." I'm trying to remember who's on the committee, who's on the committee -- and what they did is they asked me about 45 minutes of questions over the phone and I answered them because Steven Joseph was testifying to them and I guess -- now I didn't see it on C-SPAN 'cause I went to bed immediately after they interviewed me over the phone, but Dr. Murphy called me the next day and said that -- she said that when Joseph was talking that if Shays didn't mention my name one time, he mentioned it 200 times. He kept saying "well, I just hung up with Brian Martin", and this and this and this, and that makes me feel good because I've worked very hard for that respect.

I've made it a personal standard of mine never to say anything to the press or to Congress or to anybody that I don't have a document to prove. I've seen too many Gulf War groups and Gulf War advocates get thrown to the wayside because they've exaggerated numbers or they've -- you know they just didn't have the files to prove what they were saying and I won't do that and I think that's why my reputation is so good in Washington is because they know when they call on me I'll work hard for 'em, I'll put together the proof and the evidence that they need for what I'm saying, and I'm always willing to speak in front of them.

Q: Tell me what media spots you've done-- any radio or media spots, newspapers?

A: Yeah, mainstream. Phil Donahue, Montel Williams, 60 Minutes twice, Tom Snyder twice, Fox's Front Page, Fox's In the Morning, or whatever, the Today Show, CBS This Morning, Good Morning America, America This Morning or whatever that's called, oh boy. I'm trying to remember them all. 34 national television appearances I've done. This show right here will be 35, 'cause PBS is national, right? Yeah, this will be 35 for me. Radio, you name it, I've done it. I mean a lot here in Michigan. A lot out of California. I do a lot out of California. Some out of Texas. Oh, geez, I've got a media list. I've been on C-SPAN a couple of dozen times I think, I don't know. C-SPAN I -- when I did the Today Show, I met Steve Scully who is -- at that time, he was a spokesman for SIDS, him and his wife had lost two kids by SIDS, and I was giving him my card and he goes "let me give you mine", and he's the political editor for C-SPAN. So now whenever there's a hearing I go "Steve", he goes "All right, I'll have a crew there."

So I truly believe that I have a really big mouth and I have a lot of cahonies to kick in doors and I think God figured out how to use both of them. I'm not a highly religious person, but I see things unfold in front of me that only God could be responsible for. Like me doing the Today Show and sitting in the Green Room meeting the political editor of C-SPAN. You know, that's a perfect resource for me. I mean, God, now we've got C-SPAN at every hearing that we have. You know I think these things happen for a reason

Q: What is like being the Khamasiyah kid?

A: The Khamisiyah kid is actually a name that was given to me by the media. The only part of my life that has actually changed is I have been totally vindicated. The people that have talked about me and said you're a fake, or you're a liar, or you know you weren't exposed to anything, or how could you be this sick if -- you know six months over there or whatever. Now they know. Just a quick side bar, my own grandmother has disowned me. My mother's mom has disowned me. She has seen me at my worst, she has seen me crawl across the floor, she has seen blood come out of my ears and my nose and she has been there when I was at my sickest. My mom's sister, my aunt, my mom's uncle which is also my uncle, and my mom's mom which is my grandmother have all disowned me in this family and made it a personal goal to tell everybody in the family that I'm still faking and that I'm sick and there's no way that I have these problems and there's no way all these Persian Gulf veterans are sick because he was a World War II veteran and, you know, of course there's a jealousy issue with that.

But when they admitted to that tape and they admitted to Khamisiyah and they admitted to my unit being exposed and then they admitted to 98,900 and some other people being exposed, it was probably a joyous day. It wasn't a victory day because we're still sick and it's sad to know that parts of the different entities of my government would lie to me and so many other people that did what was asked of us to do, but it's changed me because I have more confidence about when I speak to congress or when I speak to the media I think that they look at me a lot different and say, you know, this guy was right and it makes me feel good because I've -- I'm not a college graduate, I'm not a genius, I'm not -- I haven't invented something that's changing the world or anything like that, all I had was a stupid little video camera at the right time at the wrong place and a stupid little video tape that happened to show something bad and you know I don't want it to change me. I mean I don't want to -- I don't want to go down as history as the Khamisiyah kid, I'd rather go down in history as being a loving father and a good friend to everybody that I've met, but it's definitely given me a new respect out there, I mean between the vets and congress and media, they definitely found a new respect for what I've done.

Q: You must know that there are critics out there. Regarding stress, for example, it's well established that post war neuroses are common and that complaints such as rashes, headaches, fatigue, blurry vision happen to a majority of returning soldiers throughout history. What do you say to this?

A: I would look at it as what their stresses were. If the VA diagnoses somebody with PTSD, it's on them to tell the vet and their service officer what the stressor was that caused the PTSD. Too many times PTSD is being diagnosed and there is no stressors as given as the cause. I believe that like in my situation where the most stressful thing that happened to me -- I mean I lost my best friend over there, but anybody that knew that they were going to war knew that you're probably gonna die of lose a friend or somebody. You know, I was mentally prepared for that, but it still hurt. It hurt like hell to lose my best friend, but I think that me not getting mail or most of the members of my unit not getting mail in a timely fashion didn't cause brain damage. I think if some of these guys were -- that were in like the APCs, the armor personnel carriers that were hit with friendly fire, I think some of the M1s that were hit with friendly fire, I think their stress levels are very high and I think some of their problems could be caused by that anxiety and that stress of knowing you know they were that close to death, they probably did lose somebody in their crew that they trained with, that they probably drank with, hung with on weekends, played cards with, whatever. Yeah, that can cause a lot of stress, but when you talk about like the stress causing symptoms, what about the illnesses?

Can stress cause inflammatory bowel disease? Or heart attacks? Can it cause a crystallizing of the valves, can it cause high platelets around the blood cells around the heart? Can stress cause brain damage? Can stress cause testicular cancer? I mean when they say stress, specifically talk about what stress can cause and weed it out from the illnesses and the real symptoms. Migraine headaches, yes, can be caused by stress. My headaches are caused from a scar on my temporal lobe. So, yeah, you know you're gonna have both either way, and I agree there's stress. I said this earlier. But you have to look at the individual, you can't just listen to two years like the PAC did -- listen to two years of testimony and then clump us all together. They didn't hear from 700,000 people. They need to individually try to find out what stressors were.

Q: Here's a tough question for you. Some people are skeptical of your health-- good-looking appearance, alert manner, and the fact that you're out there as a spokesman for lots of vets. You're traveling, you're spreading the word, and doing all this while you're suffering from Gulf War Syndrome. You've got 100% disability. How can you do all of this and still be disabled?

A: Well, because I'm disabled, I have to be bed bound? I mean I have to be in a wheelchair? I have to be in the hospital? How do MS patients get around? How do AIDS people get around? I mean they're dying, you know, they're dying at a rapid pace, they know they're dying, but they get around. Ryan White. Don't you think he was a strong little boy?

Like I said earlier, I have been very fortunate. I've made the contacts, I've opened the doors and until either they resolve the issue -- not the veterans, the government--resolves the issue and makes everybody fess up and they do what's right, I'll be in this issue for everybody. I have now the money. I mean the compensation that they're paying me gives me the money to do this. It would be very easy for me to turn my back on this issue and say "well, I've got my money, now I'm just gonna sit and live a non-stressful life." I don't have to be on the phone paying $2,800 phone bills a month. I don't have to be on the internet. This is my third computer in three years. I don't have to do any of this. I do it for them. I do it for the vets. I do it for their wives' and for their children.

I'm in a lot of pain when I'm done with it. I take my time, I work this issue when I'm able to work it. When I'm walking, if I know I've had enough, I sit down. You know, I'm not stupid, I don't push myself to where it's gonna kill me. The TV shows that I do. I'm taken care of. When I get to a hotel I like -- I make sure there is fresh fruit there, I make sure there is plenty of fluids for me to drink, I make sure that I'm on a chemical free floor.

You know, I have people ask me about smoking. How do you smoke? Dr. Claudia Miller has asked me "how do you smoke?" Dr. Murphy suggested I don't -- or that I don't quit smoking because, like if you had perfume on and I smelled it, I light up a cigarette, I can't smell it no more. So it doesn't effect me. Cigarettes are effecting me I think, I mean they told me last October I have a lung disease, but they said it's not due -- I've got a minor -- in the minor and major parts of my lungs, but it's not due to smoking. They don't know what it's due to, but I have a lung disease. Cigarettes aren't helping it, but it keeps me -- if we're driving down the road and a bus is in front of me and the exhaust is real bad, I roll up the windows and light up a cigarette. I can't smell it no more. Now I'm not throwing up, I'm not gagging, I'm not heaving, I'm not running my car into a telephone pole because I get dizzy all of a sudden. I'm very aware of what's around me, I'm very careful, I'm very cautious, flight arrangements, stewardesses and -- I mean I make sure all of that is taken care of. I do get around very well for the disability that they have me at, but, like I said, squeaky wheel syndrome. How much of that do you think was added on, you know? I know I have Reiter's syndrome because I've had civilian doctors tell me.

Q: Are you concerned -- because of your illness, are you concerned about giving blood?

A: Yeah. I will never give blood. I mean I don't care if there is a national crisis for blood, there's no way. I don't know what little funny animals are swimming around in my blood and I don't think the VA knows and I don't think the Pentagon knows and if they do know, they're not admitting it so why would I want to go and give blood and possibly make somebody sick? I called my local Red Cross here and I asked 'em, I said "do you have a screening process, a questionnaire, do you ask 'are you a Persian Gulf veteran' or 'have you been exposed to anything'", she said "no, all we do is an AIDS test on the blood." I don't agree with that. You know, there's more illnesses out there, there's leukemia, there's -- I mean there's all kinds of illnesses that blood carries and why they're just worried about AIDS I don't understand. We've written letters to Elizabeth Dole that went unanswered. We have gone as far as to even call meat markets and slaughter houses and say -- you know, it's kinda morbid, but there are people that believe in bestiality and what if somebody with Gulf War Syndrome or AIDS or something like that had sex with a cow or a goat . You know, we've actually asked the questions to cover all grounds kinda, if someone had a sex with a cow that had Gulf War syndrome could it get in the meat? We couldn't get answers from that. So, you know, we're not getting answers from the Red Cross, we're not getting answers about a lot of our concerns and these seem like silly little concerns, but there our concerns....we really care about the American people not being afflicted with this.