Hostage negotiator recounts Brittney Griner’s first moments after release from Russia

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• Amna Nawaz:

  Well, Brittney Griner is readjusting to life here at home after her nearly-10-month ordeal in Russia.

  Here was Griner over the weekend reunited with her wife, Cherelle. And the man in the middle there is Roger Carstens, the special envoy for hostage affairs in the Biden administration, who played a pivotal role in securing her release.

  Roger Carstens joins me here now.

  Welcome to the "NewsHour." Thanks for being here.

  Roger Carstens, U.S. Special Presidential Envoy for Hostage Affairs: Amna, thanks for having me.

• Amna Nawaz:

  So, you flew to the United Arab Emirates to make this swap, to meet Brittney Griner, bring her home.

  You introduce yourself to her and you say: "I'm here to take you home."

  What did she say back to you? Tell me that about that moment.

• Roger Carstens:

  Yes, I think there was a little shock.

  I mean, she knew she was going home that day. They woke her up that morning, and they told her to get on her clothes, to grab her stuff, and that she would eventually end up in the United States of America at some point in the near future.

  And yet I think, when I jumped on the plane and said: "I'm here on behalf of President Joe Biden and Secretary Blinken, I'm here to take you home," there was a little — still a little shock. It's like, oh, my gosh, this is really happening.

  I think she had a — she had a big smile. I had a B.G. pin that's been produced by Cherelle Griner and Lindsay, B.G.'s agent.

  And I handed it to her, and I said: "This is the kind of thing that Cherelle and Lindsay and everyone the United States has been concerned about, you, and this pin is in a way of exhibiting that."

  So I gave her that pin. And I think she at that point realized I was who I said I was. And, at that point, I sat her down and I said: "Look, we're going to go through a choreography over the next three or four minutes. I'm going to — I have identified you. I'm going to go back to my plane, get the Russian gentleman who's with me on that aircraft. And we're going to do kind of like the 'Bridge of Spies' walk, where both people are going to cross each other as they go to each other's planes."

  And she gave me a big smile and said: "OK, I'm ready to go."

• Amna Nawaz:

  You were on that flight back with her, 18 hours.

  You have said before that she only slept for about six of it.

• Roger Carstens:

  Yes.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Wanted to talk the rest of the time.

  Did anything that she wanted to ask you about or share with you surprise you?

• Roger Carstens:

  Yes. I would say yes.

  I mean, I know a little bit about a Russian penal colony now, having gone through this with Trevor Reed and, of course, having done my homework. But listening to her describe what she went through, her experiences, the day-to-day, the strange one-off events, I found it fascinating, informative.

  I'd prefer, of course, to…

• Amna Nawaz:

  One-off events, what do you mean by that?

• Roger Carstens:

  I'd almost prefer to let her tell that story yourself. I don't want to rob her of that chance to kind of tell the story in the best way possible.

  But, for me, I thought it was — again, it was informative, and — but, above all, it was interesting. And some of the stories that she told highlighted her humanity, how the other prisoners came to treat her, well, how some of the guards — most of the guards came to respect her.

  And it's a person who I found can make friends pretty much anywhere, because, as I found in 12 hours with her, she's very genuine, very authentic, very relatable. And I think she was making, frankly, a good impression in the prison system just connecting with other prisoners and the guards in a way that was positive.

• Amna Nawaz:

  You mentioned her wife, Cherelle.

  We all saw, of course, this incredible public campaign that she helped to lead with members of the WNBA and lawmakers, also the Bring Our Families Home Campaign members. Did that higher profile, though, doesn't that say to Russia, we have someone, you have someone that we really want back? Does that higher profile make your job harder in some ways or help?

• Roger Carstens:

  You know, in ways, sometimes, it's just flatlined.

  And I will tell you why. One thing that most people don't know is, we have brought back roughly 15 people over the last nine months. So, right now, we're actually bringing back just under two people per month, if you want to average it out. And most of these people are not high-profile. They're not known about. When we get them out, they sometimes fly underneath the radar.

  So I would say, is — does it help you whether you're famous or not? No. I think the thing that's important from our side is that it doesn't matter whether you're famous or not, whether you're rich or not, the color of your skin. Nothing matters to us, except, are you wrongfully detained, and do you have a blue passport?

  And if you have a blue passport, your country's coming to get you.

• Amna Nawaz:

  You weren't able to free fellow American detained in Russia there Paul Whelan.

  I just want to share with you, earlier today, the former U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Bill Richardson, who runs a center that does a lot of this work to free hostages, said that he believes that Mr. Whelan could be released fairly soon. He indicated that it could be by the end of this year.

  Do you believe that's true?

• Roger Carstens:

  I'm an optimist by trade. You can't have this job unless you're an optimist.

  I would say that's always in the realm of possibility. I also hate to put timelines on it, because some of these negotiations are just so brutally hard, that, even when you're getting close, you might not be as close as you would like to be.

  So, instead of putting a timeline on it, allow me to tell you the timeline that I'm interested in is, are we working on it now? I can share with you that we had a meeting this morning. It was initially going to be just a White House State Department strategy session.

  But Elizabeth Whelan joined us. And we spent about a good 45 minutes talking over strategies with Elizabeth. And why I wanted you to know that is, it's not just the government that solves the problem. We partner with families. We work with families. We create strategies together.

  We don't have monopoly and all the good ideas. And, sometimes, engaging with the families produces a solution or a strategy that we would not have thought about by ourselves. So we're on the job. We're working hard. We're engaging with the family, and we will find a way to bring Paul home.

• Amna Nawaz:

  One of the families I have been in touch with is of another American detained in Russia, a man named Marc Fogel, who has not been designated wrongfully detained by the U.S. government. And there is a distinction there.

  But his family believes that he should be designated in that way and that we should be working to free him. Why do you see Marc Fogel's case as different?

• Roger Carstens:

  We don't discuss the — I guess you would say the determination process, for obvious reasons.

  What I can tell you is that his case is under review, and will go under review. It will stay under review. It's not like we look at a case and then put it away. If a case rises to the point that it's under review, it just is constantly staying there. And, at times, we keep adding more information, trying to see if it eventually obtains a wrongful determination.

  You may or may not know that the State Department has called for humanitarian release for Mr. Fogel. And we will keep seeing if we can push on that line.

• Amna Nawaz:

  It's not just in Russia. This number of fascinates me.

  The Foley Foundation put out a report that said, of all U.S. nationals wrongfully detained, 75 percent of them are in just five countries, Russia, Venezuela, China, Syria and Iran. And, in Iran, as you know, American citizen Emad Shargi has been held there since 2018.

  His sister Neda tells me she's worried the negotiations to free him are wrapped up in larger policy tensions, specifically the Iran nuclear deal. Are they?

• Roger Carstens:

  I have had a chance to talk to Neda, in fact, all the families, as have Rob Malley, who is working on this topic specifically.

  And it's my sense that we have been able to find a way to work on the nuclear issue and the hostage issue and separate those. To my mind, we're still working hard. It's tough. The Iranians are tough to negotiate with. And at the end of the day, the other side always has the key to the jail cell. And the enemy always gets the vote or the other side always gets the vote in this case.

  And so it's just a tough manner. You have to go in, meet the other side, try to get them to un — release — or to, rather, turn that key in the jail cell. And it's never simple.

• Amna Nawaz:

  It's never simple. But, at least this time, there is some good news for the family of Brittney Griner.

• Roger Carstens:

  Indeed.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Ambassador Roger Carstens, he is special presidential envoy for hostage affairs.

  Thank you for joining us.

• Roger Carstens:

  Thank you for having me tonight.